20 Questions

This topic contains 13 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Simon Paynton 6 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #5316

    .
    Spectator

    I have a lot of frustrations and questions circling around in my head. A lot of frustrations. So I started to make a list. I am confused about what I believe. So these are huge roadblocks for me. It is not everything I am confused about. But it is a start. I really want to know….

    1. If there is no God why have we evolved to believe in one? Our brains are wired to believe in God.

    2. If there is no god why have we (as a species) believed in one since the dawn of time?

    3. If the Bible is not true, why does the advice given in the Bible makes sense to help a person live a happy fulfilled life?

    4. Why are most atheists men?

    5. Why do writers use an alter ego to keep from going insane?

    6. Why is religious faith associated with better mental health?

    7. Since we are social creatures why are atheists so individualistic?

    8. Why do atheists hate the idea of surrendering to a God?

    9. Why are their stories about near death experiences that include God?

    10. Why do the most primitive people have such a deep relationship with God?

    11. Why are most atheists well educated middle-aged white men?

    12. What is so wrong with subjective evidence when we accept subjective evidence for so many other things?

    13. I still don’t understand what kind of objective evidence would be acceptable. I mean really. Don’t get mad.

    14. Why do believers make you mad? What do you really get out of insulting them? How do you think that insulting believers is any better than them and salting you?

    15. There’s so many things I cannot explain that’s happened to me. Why is God an unworthy explanation?

    16. Why are most recovery programs religiously-based if they are not effective?

    17. Why is religion or spirituality so vital to our mental health?

    18. What is honestly wrong with needing God?

    19. What is wrong with saying it is something we would take on faith to believe in God?

    20. Why do atheists care so little about feelings?

    #5472

    Matt
    Participant

    Hi Belle, This probably would of been better posted in the main forums, rather than the PTSD group. In any case, are you hoping for us to actually give our answers for these questions?

     

    1. If there is no God why have we evolved to believe in one? Our brains are wired to believe in God.

    Belief in the supernatural was (“is” is debatable) evolutionarily beneficial. It likely helped us form communities and societies, allowing us to develop complex social interactions and work in teams for the good of the group.

     

    2. If there is no god why have we (as a species) believed in one since the dawn of time?

    We haven’t, depending on when you think the “dawn of time” is. If you mean the advent of the human species, the answer is that it was beneficial to our ancestor species (see answer 1 above).

     

    3. If the Bible is not true, why does the advice given in the Bible makes sense to help a person live a happy fulfilled life?

    The secret to a happy, fulfilled life is timeless advice… i.e. the same basic advice worked the same in 10000 BC as it does in 2017 AD. There’s no reason to assume that just because this advice is present in a book, means the book was in any way special.

     

    4. Why are most atheists men?

    No idea. How does that impact the existence or not of god, or the accuracy of the bible?

     

    5. Why do writers use an alter ego to keep from going insane?

    I’m not sure what you mean here… I’m going to pass.

     

    6. Why is religious faith associated with better mental health?

    Could have something to do with the fact that world is a harsh place, so belief in the supernatural offers some additional comfort. Could also be due to that evolutionary hard-wiring to believe in the supernatural (i.e. atheists going against their natural tendency to believe results in mental conflict and thus poorer mental health)

     

    7. Since we are social creatures why are atheists so individualistic?

    Possibly because of the extra adversity they had to get past to become atheists? That would be my guess… In any case, how does impact the existence of god, or the accuracy of the bible?

     

    8. Why do atheists hate the idea of surrendering to a God?

    Why does a free man hate the idea of being a slave? I’m not sure I understand the question…

     

    9. Why are their there stories about near death experiences that include God?

    Because people when people get close to death, the brain releases a massive amount of DMT and probably other things, causing intense vivid hallucinations. There are also near death experiences that include the hindu gods, does that make them any more/less real to you?

     

    10. Why do the most primitive people have such a deep relationship with God?

    It’s beneficial for them. It helps to build a stronger community.

     

    11. Why are most atheists well educated middle-aged white men?

    See answer to question 4. Why is this in any way important to you? How does it impact the existence of god, or the accuracy of the bible?

     

    12. What is so wrong with subjective evidence when we accept subjective evidence for so many other things?

    Subjective evidence is subjective. For something unimportant, it’s fine (e.g. my neighbour got a new puppy), but for something important, we demand a higher standard of evidence because we care about the truth of the claim (e.g. Did John murder Jane? requires good non-subject, non-circumstancial evidence to be sure the answer is correct). The claim of god’s existence is even more important again. I’d say it’s one of the most important questions a person can even make. As such, it requires lots of good evidence.

     

    13. I still don’t understand what kind of objective evidence would be acceptable. I mean really. Don’t get mad.

    Considering we have already had a full blown thread, just about this one question, I’m not going to even attempt to answer it here. Revisit that thread, or make another one explaining your misunderstandings as much as you can, and we can talk about it there.

     

    14. Why do believers make you mad?

    Believers make me mad when they show their arrogance, malice, and/or cruelty (i.e. not all believers and not all the time).

    What do you really get out of insulting them?

    Amusement, mostly, although I try not to insult the person, just the belief.

    How do you think that insulting believers is any better than them and salting you?

    I don’t. But if they’re going to do it to me, I may as well do it back. Again, I try not to insult the person, and focus more on the belief.

     

    15. There’s so many things I cannot explain that’s happened to me. Why is God an unworthy explanation?

    See above, re: standards of evidence (answer 12)

     

    16. Why are most recovery programs religiously-based if they are not effective?

    Who said they aren’t effective? Maybe they are effective because they replace one addiction (drugs), with another (faith)?

     

    17. Why is religion or spirituality so vital to our mental health?

    Ok, this is starting to get repetitive… see above, re: answer 6

     

    18. What is honestly wrong with needing God?

    What do you mean by “needing” god? If you mean that you need to feel like you have a father figure watching over you, there’s really nothing wrong with that, although I’d argue you’d be better off without.

     

    19. What is wrong with saying it is something we would take on faith to believe in God?

    If you say you take it on faith to believe in God, then you don’t get to claim that God is definitely real. You have admitted you have insufficient evidence to back up such a claim. From the atheists perspective, this is a conversation killer on-par with sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming “I CAN’T HEAR YOU, I CAN’T HEAR YOU). It’s incredibly frustrating to go through all of the argumentational support for your position, to then have the other side explicitly ignore it all and “take it as a matter of faith”.

     

    20. Why do atheists care so little about feelings?

    It’s not that we care so little about feelings, it’s that we care more about facts when determining what is real.

     

    Hope that helps you.

    #5476

    .
    Spectator

    @matt

    See answer to question 4. Why is this in any way important to you? How does it impact the existence of god, or the accuracy of the bible?

    For me personally it’s been enormously impactful. It has nothing to do with God or the Bible. I don’t know how you derived that from my question because my question is about atheists. Not Christians. I’m going to hone in on this specific question for a minute and get to the rest later because it’s (to me) a very big deal.

    I do not think “truth” discriminates.

    #5477

    .
    Spectator

    @matt I don’t know why I put it here except I was really frustrated when I wrote this. I don’t know if I can switch it back to the main forum…

    #5490

    Strega
    Moderator

    You can copy and paste it elsewhere

    #5502

    Matt
    Participant

    @Belle

    I don’t know how you derived that from my question

    I may of been making some assumptions about the OP. What I meant was: how does a persons age, race, or gender impact the truth of what they are saying?

    it’s (to me) a very big deal.

    I wonder why? Do you have some bias against the well educated? the middle aged? white people? men? If the majority of atheists were illiterate teen asian girls, would it make a difference to you?

    You know, Trump is NOT representative of middle aged white men (in fact, I’d say he is past middle aged).

     

    Each of these questions could potentially spawn an entire forum thread. It might be worthwhile picking one at a time and posting them in the main forum.

    #5503

    .
    Spectator

    @matt

    Do you have some bias against the well educated? the middle aged? white people? men?

    I am a minority’s single mother on welfare. I have no way to “fit in” and all atheist events that are around are not family friendly. There’s something very wrong with that. If it is “true” why is it all so inaccessible to those who need community the most? Are you all just about sitting around bashing believers all day as you complain about the religious but do nothing to help them have a viable alternative? Single Middle Aged white rich men don’t need God.

    #5575

    Matt
    Participant

    If it is “true” why is it all so inaccessible to those who need community the most?

    I didn’t think I’d have to explain this, but… The inaccessability of the atheist community says nothing about the existence of god. Conversely, the accessability of the christian community also says nothing about the existence of god, although one could argue it’s so accessible so that it’s easier to bring in new believers (and their juicy donations), and children to indoctrinate.

     

    Are you all just about sitting around bashing believers all day as you complain about the religious but do nothing to help them have a viable alternative?

    No, mostly we just want to get on with our lives without religious interference. There’s nothing stopping people from running community programs without religious nonsense included… There’s no need for religion. In any case, what does this have to do with the existence of god? or are you saying you believe solely because the believers have more accessible communities?

     

    Single Middle Aged white rich men don’t need God.

    Which still has nothing to do with the existence of god… What does it matter to you if a certain group of people are atheists? If that group were married, poor, asian children, would it make a difference? (I note you chose to ignore a similar question in my previous post… why?)

    #5584

    .
    Spectator

    @matt

    Which still has nothing to do with the existence of god…

    The truth shouldn’t make you miserable and want to shoot yourself

    I note you chose to ignore a similar question in my previous post… why?)

    WhT are you talking about?

    #5590

    Matt
    Participant

    The truth shouldn’t make you miserable and want to shoot yourself

    Ok… The truth doesn’t care about your feelings… it just IS.

     

    WhT are you talking about?

    I asked you the following questions:

    “If the majority of atheists were illiterate teen asian girls, would it make a difference to you?”

    and

    “What does it matter to you if a certain group of people are atheists? If that group were married, poor, asian children, would it make a difference?”

     

    The aim of these questions was to figure out WHY it matters to you that most atheists are middle aged/white/men/whatever else. Are you ignoring them on purpose? did you think they where rhetorical? did you not even notice them?

    #5597

    .
    Spectator

    @matt I just don’t think truth should only draw in one demographic. Yes it still matters if it were teenage Asian girls.

    #5625

    Matt
    Participant

    I just don’t think truth should only draw in one demographic

    I’m not sure what to call this logical fallacy, but I’m 100% sure the demographics of people who believe something has no bearing on the truth of that belief.

     

    To flip it around, the churches in Australia (and likely many other places) have drawn in the pedophile demographic. Does that have any bearing on the truth of their message/preaching? (Rhetorical question, the answer is an obvious no)

    #5626

    .
    Spectator

    @matt

    To flip it around, the churches in Australia (and likely many other places) have drawn in the pedophile demographic. Does that have any bearing on the truth of their message/preaching?

    It does in the sense that pedophiles seek out power and control positions and places where people are vulnerable and where it is easy to exploit them. They are not drawn to churches for the “truth” they are drawn due to the environment that is prime picking for their addiction. Pedophiles can be many different races and ethnicities.

    It’s not the same thing I am saying and it’s not really an apples to apples comparison.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by  ..
    #5629

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    The more points of view you can have, the more objective you can be.  That’s why democracy is such a good idea: no one person or group has all the answers; in effect, everyone’s got a point worth listening to, which can add to the overall picture.

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