AI and creativity. ChatGPT writes a sonnet.

[jakelafortParticipant]

How many of us would ditch a human partner or opt for an idealized robot that meets our physical wants and is the perfect companion in terms of temperment, personality, idiosyncrasies, loyalty and can converse and challenge us in intellectual discussions?

[UnseenParticipant]

@jake

Human relationships can be a dreadful distraction and sometimes dangerous (especially for “the tender gender”). Speaking as a guy, a physically-attractive pleasure unit that would not distract, would satisfy my sexual needs, would not have a wandering eye, and would look 20 years old till the day I die would be tempting to say the least.

I would still want human friends of both genders, of course.

Next best would be a cyborg dog or cat. The downside being no sex, of course.

[UnseenParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

Unseen, the cats and dogs poem is the one i was referring to. I think it is blech. And the science is shallow to steal a descriptor.

Jake, cats and dogs are not a subject likely to result in poetical profundity or magic.

Look how far AI has come in the last five or ten years. Imagine, if you can, what it will be capable of in another five or ten.

Unfortunately, humans being human, by the time we realize we need to stop it, it will be too late.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by  Unseen.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Unseen, i am pretty sure i would exercise option B. My hunch is we would feel just as much love emotion as we do for the biological trap! No worrying about your partner getting cancer or dementia…

And as you indicate life would be otherwise the same unless your buddy thinks your bot has hot pants and even then he would know that he can’t tempt lady bot.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Unseen, there is no denying the progress.

I am not sure whether it was on here or i read about it independently but one of the foremost tinkerers in developing general intelligence in AI is of the opinion that we MUST STOP ALL DEVELOPMENT immediately. A complete and irrevocable moratorium. This same guy would not sign on to a letter signed by 1100 AI scientiests/technicians because it it an insufficient response to an existential threat that will and i am paraphrasing and relying on memory: cause every human on the planet to be dead.

[UnseenParticipant]

@jake

If AI doesn’t kill us off first, we humans will kill ourselves off.

My guess is that our antagonism, justified or not, of adversaries will end us all. My guess is that ultimately a nuclear war with N. Korea will be the means to that end. Even if we don’t end up in a nuclear exchange with them, we can’t seem to do anything about the rogue state and once they realize they can’t be stopped, what good can possibly come of that?

Our philosophy of “Live Free Or Die” leaves no room for survival because, living free doesn’t seem to be in the cards, even here at home where our government is gaining a creeping level of control over the news cycle. It doesn’t do so directly, which would be illegal, but legally through cultivating cooperation from the most popular and trusted news sources.

“Live unfree or die” is the inside-out version of that old dictum.

On the other hand, what do you think would happen if Russia, China, and N. Korea had no Western antagonist? Would they tighten their dictatorial grip or loosen up and permit more freedom?

Something to consider.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Unseen, ya get Jake the Flake’s approval for that post.

Yes we are nearing our demise. Which existential threat will nail us? IDK but my guess is nukes and certainly N. Korea is a dangerous one.

By and large i think the politics of the planet are drifting towards fascism. If all nations had a policy of isolationism and only fighting when their interests were threatened i think there would be a lot less death, misery and suffering. Whether that would alter the winds of political influence? Can’t say.

I have been struck by how we always demonize the enemy. Twas ever thus. Oh those dirty mutha fuckin Russians! Fill in the blank. It is a form of propaganda that enables peoples to continue war efforts and make strangers murder each other. It is never as i have indicated solve the underlying issues. We don’t work on ending dictatorships. We don’t as humans cooperate in addressing the existential and life issues. We don’t see our best and brightest work towards bettering civilization and addressing existential threats. We don’t see technology and algorithms being utilized to indoctrinate the mindless masses. Oh hell…back to the races…

[UnseenParticipant]

@jake

Concrete example of demonizing the enemy: We hear regularly on the Mainstream Media about Russian atrocities in contravention of The Geneva Conventions, sometimes with blurred out video, showing them supposedly killing Ukrainian captured soldiers and civilians.

Anyone caring to go outside the mainstream can easily find videos, blurred and/or unblurred of Ukrainian soldiers torturing or killing their prisoners, and as for civilians, the Ukies have been caught redhanded in false flag activities, shooting rockets into Ukrainian apartment buildings so that they could claim the Russkies did it. They have regularly set up operations on the roofs of civilian buildings, daring the Russkies to retaliate.

Are we to believe that Russians are somehow inherently more pathological than Ukrainians? Right-wing Ukrainians have been harassing and killing Russian-speaking and culturally-Russian civilians in the Eastern territories for years leading up to the current conflict.

Having recently watched some documentaries about WW2, I discovered that American soldiers committed some terrible war crimes upon Japanese soldiers. One example: removing the gold teeth of Japanese soldiers, some dead and, believe it or don’t, some dying. Even cutting cheeks open to gain better access. And then there’s My Lai.

War does not bring out our best.

In war, some will do what they gotta do and some will do what they feel they can get away with, counting on their side to look the other way.

As for our doom, my money, as I said, is on N. Korea. Our window of opportunity to turn that situation around is long past. They know we can’t stop them and we’ve voluntarily withdrawn any economic leverage we might have had over them. We’re well over the event horizon on that situstion.

[_Robert_Participant]

Unseen wrote:

@jake Concrete example of demonizing the enemy: We hear regularly on the Mainstream Media about Russian atrocities in contravention of The Geneva Conventions, sometimes with blurred out video, showing them supposedly killing Ukrainian captured soldiers and civilians. Anyone caring to go outside the mainstream can easily find videos, blurred and/or unblurred of Ukrainian soldiers torturing or killing their prisoners, and as for civilians, the Ukies have been caught redhanded in false flag activities, shooting rockets into Ukrainian apartment buildings so that they could claim the Russkies did it. They have regularly set up operations on the roofs of civilian buildings, daring the Russkies to retaliate. Are we to believe that Russians are somehow inherently more pathological than Ukrainians? Right-wing Ukrainians have been harassing and killing Russian-speaking and culturally-Russian civilians in the Eastern territories for years leading up to the current conflict. Having recently watched some documentaries about WW2, I discovered that American soldiers committed some terrible war crimes upon Japanese soldiers. One example: removing the gold teeth of Japanese soldiers, some dead and, believe it or don’t, some dying. Even cutting cheeks open to gain better access. And then there’s My Lai. War does not bring out our best. In war, some will do what they gotta do and some will do what they feel they can get away with, counting on their side to look the other way. As for our doom, my money, as I said, is on N. Korea. Our window of opportunity to turn that situation around is long past. They know we can’t stop them and we’ve voluntarily withdrawn any economic leverage we might have had over them. We’re well over the event horizon on that situstion.

Has Ukraine invaded Russia, attacked Moscow with missiles and armored tank columns, all while murdering, raping, stealing and kidnapping Russian civilians, destroying Russian infrastructure? Ethically idiotic equivalencies between Russian and Ukrainian behavior leave a sad impression. It is right wing obstructionism, plain and simple. The entire liberal world sees Russia as the terrorists they are. Of course, the reactionary, morally bankrupt Trumpist right is pro-Putin, Pro Russia.

Was the US’s standard military policy during WW2 to mutilate bodies? Or was that the work of individuals? Yet you compare that Russia’s official policy of the genocide of the Ukraine people. Again, a very poorly constructed ethical argument.

Once the horror of war begins, of course people will dial down what passes as ethical behavior. Vilification, demonization and desecration of the enemy (who is killing you) is unavoidable in spite of the official stance. Using that to justify the original invasion is a pathetic argument.

[UnseenParticipant]

@robert

Don’t stand on your metaphorical head to paint me as pro-Russian. I’m pro-civilized human. Of course Russia’s invasion was wrong, but it’s Putin to blame for the inevitable (as you yourself pointed out) atrocities of war.  That Ukraine has been far from perfect in its treatment of ethnic and linguistic Russians within its borders isn’t speculation or invention, it’s a fact. The oppression was carried about by Nazi-esque Azovs and what was the Ukrainian central government doing to control them? Nothing. Which I guess makes it kind of semi-official.

That policy left the door open for Putin. Those truly at fault here are the leaders of both countries. Don’t blame the soldiers was the theme of my post. Russian soldiers are no more bloodthirsty than Ukrainians. That even Americans will commit war crimes shows that it’s just something that comes along with war and it applies to both sides in about equal measure.

Don’t paint me as some sort of right-wing nut job. I’m pretty far left on most everything. I’m just not blinded by patriotism.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Ya know a lesson i had to learn was to stop the madness. Growing up having half jewish ancestry and more identifying that way than with the Irish and French i had to get over my hatred of Germans. Not only did history make me sick but i experienced antisemitism from German Americans. Hatred begets hatred. No good comes of it. And i am not making a statement as a pacifist. Sometimes ya gotta fight. But when we portray this ethnic group or that as uniquely vile we are playing into a bad narrative and one in which no good will come.

The reality is we are all easily led and capable of the most vicious cruelty. Individuals in all groups are exceptions. As a people or peoples we are big hairy mindless monkeys.

Sure Americans have committed atrocities. Look at pics of Blacks being tortured and hung from trees. What was done to indigenous peoples in Americas is unspeakable. During the Mexican war there were volunteers from each state who went hog wild raping and murdering Mexicans. Of course the second world war had plenty of ugly american shit. I dont think it compared to the Japanese. Just finished a book about Japanese treatment of American POWs in PHilippines. It is just unfucking real how cruel and heartless and the sport they made of torture. And yet you look today at Japanese people and see how tender they can be.

I have a friend who is Armenian. His family hates Turks. Despises them. Totally get it. But that kind of thinking in which we portray other monkeys as the bad monkeys does nothing to change our course. It does everything to make it full steam ahead into our ultimate demise.

It is never about how we make the world a better, safer place for all humans. The accident of locus of birth should not determine rights. What are we doing to help the poor N. Koreans? What are we doing to engender cooperation globally? Once again let me get back to my ponies…

[_Robert_Participant]

Unseen wrote:

@robert Don’t stand on your metaphorical head to paint me as pro-Russian. I’m pro-civilized human. Of course Russia’s invasion was wrong, but it’s Putin to blame for the inevitable (as you yourself pointed out) atrocities of war. That Ukraine has been far from perfect in its treatment of ethnic and linguistic Russians within its borders isn’t speculation or invention, it’s a fact. The oppression was carried about by Nazi-esque Azovs and what was the Ukrainian central government doing to control them? Nothing. Which I guess makes it kind of semi-official. That policy left the door open for Putin. Those truly at fault here are the leaders of both countries. Don’t blame the soldiers was the theme of my post. Russian soldiers are no more bloodthirsty than Ukrainians. That even Americans will commit war crimes shows that it’s just something that comes along with war and it applies to both sides in about equal measure. Don’t paint me as some sort of right-wing nut job. I’m pretty far left on most everything. I’m just not blinded by patriotism.

There is no content here. If you are gonna advocate for right wing nonsense talking points, I will call you out for what they are. Again, you project that somehow Ukraine has no right to be a country, to decide its own fate, select its own allies and somehow the West actually forced Putin to attack. That we knew Russia’s military would suck so bad and the plan was to use Ukraine to burn them. This is complete right-wing bullshit, so own it.

The N. Korea nonsense is another Jimmy Dore thing. We are forcing poor Kim Un to shoot missiles. Huge threat to the US and again it’s our fault. You do understand, one submarine is what it takes to make N. Korea glass. Kim’s gonna give up his palace, his video games, his basketball courts, and his concubines to live in an anit-radiation hole? People who fear these dictators make me laugh.

[UnseenParticipant]

@robert

Where does “the right to be a country come from”? God? According to your thinking, that right apparently comes from us.

In that part of the world, borders have been fairly fluid for centuries. All of a sudden, they are written in granite? Where is Poland? Depends on when you are talking about? For that matter, where is Texas? How did it become part of the United States.

Clue: There was no vote.

 

[_Robert_Participant]

Borders are “fluid” usually because there is always some dictator who wants to conquer. There is no justification for the US stealing parts of Mexico. This was before international law and let’s face it, most Americans were first- or second-generation Europeans who were used to invading and conquering. In a perfect world like John Lennon proposes we wouldn’t even have borders. However, people have national pride and love their country.

After the invasions and horrors of WW2, it was hoped that with the UN and new international laws we would finally have evolved to a point where at least cross-border land grabs would cease happening. If an invasion happened, the United Nations would vote on the matter and intervene with force if necessary. With a few notable exceptions, the UN turned out to be a divided chat room and the US/UK/NATO largely took on the burden of that role. Huge mistakes are made, true, but it’s not like modern Western Democracies are still invading nations across borders for permanent occupation.

 

[UnseenParticipant]

@robert

Perhaps we can agree on this: The UN is and always would be a ball-less disaster. If it actually took a stand on a controversial matter and went about enforcement, members would drop out and it’d collapse into a mutual admiration society of like-minded nations. As for the Security Counsel…what a joke.

[Author]

Posts