Fair pay for women. It's not what you hear from advocates.

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This topic contains 27 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Unseen 6 months, 2 weeks ago.

Viewing 13 posts - 16 through 28 (of 28 total)
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  • #9177

    _Robert_
    Participant

    No, it’s the left’s fault for being idiots. For example, many of the Bernie Sanders idealist devotees didn’t vote at all in the general election and then were so shocked and talking the end-of-the-world when Trump won. Idiots.

    Another thing that bothers me is that so many liberals don’t seem to know that “Islamophobia” is bullshit and Islam is a bullshit doctrine that is as far from my beloved liberal values as one can get. Liberals should not be protecting Islamic values from the right, It’s one of the few things that the right gets right.

    #9179

    Unseen
    Participant

    No, it’s the left’s fault for being idiots. For example, many of the Bernie Sanders idealist devotees didn’t vote at all in the general election and then were so shocked and talking the end-of-the-world when Trump won. Idiots. Another thing that bothers me is that so many liberals don’t seem to know that “Islamophobia” is bullshit and Islam is a bullshit doctrine that is as far from my beloved liberal values as one can get. Liberals should not be protecting Islamic values from the right, It’s one of the few things that the right gets right.

    One thing I learned years ago is that radicalism (and that includes a lot of advocacy) values purity over success. If they can’t win their goal overnight, they’re not interested. So progress in the form of incremental gains is actually failure from their POV.

    So, all the negative gains Trump has made in terms of rolling back environmental and civil rights protections, packing the lower courts with conservative judges who will hold their posts for up to 50 years, getting a conservative on the Supreme Court…these are all “accomplishments” of the radical left.

    The radical left, just like the radical right, is only interested in statistics that confirm their view, even if it takes misconstruing them or ignoring flaws as they do so.

    Their reliance on bad statistics to “prove” that women are discriminated against in the workplace is just one example. Another is their ridiculous rape statistics, which even the agencies who put them out admit are flawed and of dubious acccuracy, because they involve self-reporting for example (a rape victim will be motivated to report a rape in an anonymous study whereas a non-victim is likely to have other things to do).

    The rule goes: NEVER GET YOUR STATISTICS FROM ADVOCATES!

    #9197

    physeter
    Participant

    female toddlers tending to prefer soft and furry toys like dolls and stuffed animals whereas male toddlers tend to favor hard-edged toys like trucks and airplanes.

    Video: What happens if you put a little girl in boy clothes, and then ask an adult to play with “him” ? http://www.bbc.com/news/av/magazine-40936719/gender-specific-toys-do-you-stereotype-children

    #9198

    physeter
    Participant

    No, it’s the left’s fault for being idiots. For example, many of the Bernie Sanders idealist devotees didn’t vote at all in the general election and then were so shocked and talking the end-of-the-world when Trump won.

    I’m guessing you just made that up, rather than looking at any statistics. According to this analysis in Newsweek, published last August, nearly 80% of the Sanders supporters went on to vote for Hillary Clinton in the general. 80% counts as “many” don’t you think?

    Less than 5% of the Sanders voters did not vote at all in the general election. Do you think 5% is “many”? Because I think words have objective meaning…

    It also says 12% of Sanders’ supporters voted for Trump. I think we can say with 100% confidence that those voters (1) Were not part of “the left”, (2) Liked Sanders because he was an “outsider” or “different,” not because he was a liberal, and (3) Couldn’t have been that shocked when Trump won.

    Another thing that bothers me is that so many liberals don’t seem to know that “Islamophobia” is bullshit and Islam is a bullshit doctrine that is as far from my beloved liberal values as one can get.

    “Islamophobia” is a poorly chosen term. It’s of course a good idea to be opposed to a bad philosophy like Islam, and liberals should not be afraid to criticize Islam. But “Islamaophobia” usually refers to anti-Muslim sentiment, which is quite different. Just like most modern U.S. Christians don’t take the Bible literally at all, most modern Muslims don’t want to be in conflict with the rest of the world, and just want to practice their religion in peace. But they aren’t allowed to live in peace.

    What does this anti-Muslim sentiment look like? It looks like attacks on mosques. It looks like hate crimes. It looks like people attacking Sikhs wearing turbans because they think the brown skin and turban means they’re a Muslim. This is not a principled disagreement with the philosophy of Islam. This is good old-fashioned bigotry and hate against a group of people based on stereotypes. It is something all humanists should oppose, and it’s certainly not something “the right gets right.”

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 4 weeks ago by  physeter.
    • This reply was modified 6 months, 4 weeks ago by  physeter.
    • This reply was modified 6 months, 4 weeks ago by  physeter.
    • This reply was modified 6 months, 4 weeks ago by  physeter.
    #9204

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    For example, many of the Bernie Sanders idealist devotees didn’t vote at all in the general election and then were so shocked and talking the end-of-the-world when Trump won. Idiots.

    I can buy your reasoning, there. And otoh, too many libs voted for Nader (back in 2000?… I already forgot when!), taking enough votes from Gore in FLorida and consequently the electoral college to Bush.

    I’m lefty for sure, but object to being lumped in with genuine libtards. I didn’t even believe how anti-free speech they’ve gotten until Milo came onto the big scene.

    #9205

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    The radical left, just like the radical right, is only interested in statistics that confirm their view, even if it takes misconstruing them or ignoring flaws as they do so.

    In broader terms, this is part of the new, identity politics trend. Tribalism.

    #9207

    physeter
    Participant

    I can buy your reasoning, there

    It’s not true though. They’ve analyzed the results. In the general, 80% of Bernie supporters voted for Clinton. Only about 5% sat out the general election. Of the rest of them, about 12% of former Bernie supporters ended up voting for Trump–which should tell you they aren’t liberals; they had other reasons for liking Bernie. In fact, the article goes on to say that of those Bernie supporters who voted Trump, more than half were either Republican or lean Republican.

    Unseen wrote:

    The radical left, just like the radical right, is only interested in statistics that confirm their view, even if it takes misconstruing them or ignoring flaws as they do so.

    Isn’t that kind of ironic to say on a post that simply makes things up about Bernie supporters and ignores the statistics?

    #9208

    _Robert_
    Participant

    So 1 in 5 of Socialist Sander’s supporters report that they effectively voted for Trump. The number is probably actually higher because some people want to vomit in their mouths when they think about the result. People lie on surveys. It was a very close election. Liberals gave it away.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 4 weeks ago by  _Robert_.
    #9296

    physeter
    Participant

    I meant to come back to this thread and respond. Apologies for my lateness. But I would like to point out that this second point you made is completely different from the first thing you said.

    Before, you made a specific claim: the left was full of idiots, as evidenced by the way Bernie supporters didn’t vote. Now, after you’ve learned that most Bernie supporters did vote, you change your claim to the more generic and harder to argue “Liberals gave it away.”

    When Christians do this sort of thing we call it “moving the goalposts.”

    #9301

    Unseen
    Participant

    Before, you made a specific claim: the left was full of idiots, as evidenced by the way Bernie supporters didn’t vote.

    It’s hard to know which of us you are talking to. Let’s assume all of us.

    That’s a headspinningly hair-splitting and disingenuous dodge. No, of course it’s not a fact that 100% of all Bernie voters boycotted the election or wasted their vote on a hopeless candidate. However, it IS the case that the 40% who did boycott or throw away their vote must accept responsibility for their part in making Trump President.

    #9340

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    the 40% who did boycott or throw away their vote must accept responsibility for their part in making Trump President.

    I agree with that, but also have to give credit to the Bannon machine for motivating voters in those two states (err, I already forgot which states) that made the electoral college difference. It was totally planned by the Mercer/Bannon et al machinery, and unexpectedly successful by the vast majority of good people in our world. Well, except Belen expected the outcome. 🙂

    (Yes, blame that on the left, too. And many people on the right who wish they hadn’t thrown in their protest vote.)

    #9371

    Unseen
    Participant

    I agree with that, but also have to give credit to the Bannon machine for motivating voters in those two states

    Let’s not forget the role the Russkies played!

    #9372

    Unseen
    Participant

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