Are you voting?

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This topic contains 27 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  CKayeP 1 month ago.

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  • #33718

    Ivy
    Participant

    I’m curious for those living in the US: Are you voting?

    If you do not live in the US, Would you vote if you were living here?

    Do you really think that your vote counts?

     

    My thought on that matter is that it depends where you live.

     

    It seems far more impactful and important to vote at the local level where your vote would be much more important.

    As far as the presidential election goes as far as whether your vote counts or not, like I said it really doesn’t seem to me like it matters. I live in a blue state. We’re not turning red anytime soon. My vote would not count either way. But if you are in a swing state and particularly a district that is really down to the wire… Yeah those places your vote really counts. I don’t know. I’m wondering what you all think. If they did away with the electoral college, Perhaps it would change things. Maybe? I don’t know.

     

    #33721

    Davis
    Moderator

    Votes count in the aggregate. The popular vote does mean something (even if it doesn’t win the electoral college) as it gives an added amount of legitimacy to a president. If people in states like California don’t vote because they are certain their state will go Democrat, that is still a lot of votes that aren’t given that skew the overall popular vote (which would have been a lot higher if people had voted). Also, you are voting for your house of representative and senator and probably your Governor and possible your state House Representative and Senator and possibly local votes and then there are ballot measures (which can be EXTREMELY important if they are topics like gun control, medical marijuana, measures about religion in school, euthanasia etc). So yeah…I would vote.

    #33724

    cecilia fx
    Participant

    your vote doesn’t count when you don’t vote.

    I’m happy to see such a large number of people early voting. I’m going to early vote this coming weekend, which is when early voting begins in my state.

    #33725

    georgekarpel
    Participant

    Yes, I’m voting … like I have done for the last 55 years.  In fact – I already did : by mail-in-ballot.
    I too live in a blue state.  Lived in two red States & have no desire to ever go back to either one again
    … not even for a quick visit.

    I think my vote counts more at the local level than the national one … but it just adds to the total national numbers. (and I sleep better at night, knowing that I did what every responsible citizen should do.)

    As to The Electoral College : It worked pretty well for over 200 years, but is now just an obsolete & useless holdover from the days before the telephone, computers & TV.   It’s an extra step in the process that’s subject to corruption & abuse.  As far as this specific election, with all the fanatic ‘loyalists’ in State & Federal government, there’s an opportunity for meddling in the results at every level.  Not something that the founders of The Constitution could anticipate.

     

     

    #33726

    Kristina
    Participant

    If I were American, I would be voting and for the first time in my life, I’d be voting specifically against a candidate. Even in situations where I haven’t liked any of my available options, I’ve always voted for whom I thought to be the best of the lot, eschewing strategic voting.

    Granted, in an American presidential election, strategic voting isn’t particularly complicated. The mass psychology of voters is well enough understood that only one of two outcomes is plausible even though mathematically a third-party candidate could dominate the popular vote. If I wanted to stop that despicable, vile, blowhard of a candidate from winning, I’d only have one person worth voting for in this election. That’s right: I’d have to vote Trump to stop Biden.

    I’m joking. I’d be voting for Biden/ Harris in this election.

    Incidentally, I did vote in an election here just last week. The BC provincial election closes at the end of the week. I bring this up only because not that long ago my electoral district was viewed as almost a lock for the most conservative candidate running. He won with a twenty point lead in the previous election in 2017. This year the gap narrowed, and due to an event during the election, he ended up in a dead heat with my preferred candidate. when I cast my mail-in ballot, it felt like it was unlikely to shift the result. Since then, it looks like the race may be determined by a razor thin margin.

    #33728

    Unseen
    Participant

    I turned in my ballot yesterday.

    #33729

    If I could I would, at least once 🙂

    Looks like GA is now about 50/50

     

    #33730

    jakelafort
    Participant

    I am not sure how influential debates are in presidential elections. Was not surprised that Biden was so weak in his first debate as cognitive decline appears to have begun. But Harris? I thought she was a sharp attorney. She sucked. Was it their strategy that a woman ought not eviscerate a man? Apparently she failed the bar first attempt. I know from first hand experience that first time taking it is stressful. Still…not a great sign. Why do we have mediocre candidates? The USA has so many great thinkers that it is disappointing to be stuck with these candidates.

    Getting rid of Trump is the only viable strategy. Gotta do whacha got to do.

    #33731

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    I haven’t voted since 2004 and I haven’t regretted it for a minute.  As the bumper stickers says: If voting really changed things, it would be iillegal.

    A good way to look at voting is like prayer.  If your prayer to God is in line with His Omnibenevolent, perfect will, then your prayer is unnecessary.  If your prayer is not in line with his Omnibenevolent, perfect will, then it futile and all the prayer in the Universe is fruitless.  Even if there was an Omnific Supernatural Deity, prayer is useless.

    I choose to stick to reachable things of real consequence, like keeping myself in line, keeping physically fit and fiscally afloat, treating people right here and now, helping friends, co-workers, and neighbors when possible, and changing ideas by friendly persuasion or donating books and media.

    #33733

    jakelafort
    Participant

    That reminds me. I have never voted. I am 50/50 to vote. If i were in a swing state i would do it without reservation.

    #33736

    Jpprater
    Participant

    Yes. Second time voting, haven’t voted since 2008. Can’t wait until this goddamn crap is over with.

    #33741

    Kristina
    Participant

    A good way to look at voting is like prayer. If your prayer to God is in line with His Omnibenevolent, perfect will, then your prayer is unnecessary. If your prayer is not in line with his Omnibenevolent, perfect will, then it futile and all the prayer in the Universe is fruitless. Even if there was an Omnific Supernatural Deity, prayer is useless.

    It’s not analogous for a few reasons.

    1. Prayer has no observable mechanism for influencing outcomes. If we presume a god exists, we have no way of measuring or understanding how prayers are processed and acted upon. The mechanism by which votes work is understood.
    2. What a prayer represents and what a vote for a candidate represents are different. Prayer can be highly variable asking for vague concepts like protection or well-being or forgiveness, or it can be any number of very specific things like praying for money or a new car or to have cancer go into remission. A vote for a candidate is, specifically, a vote for that candidate to represent you in government on a range of issues. While you may vote based on a specific hope you had or promise they made, the reality is your vote never guaranteed that outcome if the candidate was elected–it only helped secure their right to represent you.
    3. Politicians are more predictable than gods. They are definitely more predictable than current iterations of the Abrahamic god. While we can’t perfectly predict what any given politician will do, we can look at that individual, their track record, their behaviour, whom they are beholden to, how their party tends to act, what the limitations of their office are etc. and make some informed guesses on how they will behave if elected. At the very least, we can reasonably assess if their actions will be preferable in office to their opponents. I’m not saying everyone does a good job of that; I’m just saying it’s possible. We can’t do anything of the sort with a god, again, even if we presume one exists. At best we can pretend like we know what they actually have or have not done in the past or that we know what they are likely to do in the future..
    4. Votes empower politicians to act, while gods are already empowered to respond to prayers. If politicians do nothing to court your vote, it reduces their odds of securing office, which means they won’t be able to effect the changes they want, from those that align with your needs and wants to those that contradict them.

    It’s true that the current system leaves a lot to be desired. The voting system may have issues with fairness. Politicians may have less incentive to make good on promises than we like. They may overlap one another too much in terms of overall policy. They may be more susceptible to corruption and catering to lobby groups or personal interest than most of us can stomach. They may be more bogged down by bureaucracy than we like. There is a lot to be concerned about.

    Even so, it seems very difficult to argue that nothing would be materially better or worse based on whether the next president is Biden or Trump. And with the level of time and commitment it takes to vote (typically), it is entirely compatible with doing all of the things you do to have more local impact.

    Personally, I don’t actually care if you vote or not. It’s just, why not make the choice based on the realities of the system as it is instead of warping it into a fairy tale version?

    #33746

    Davis
    Moderator

    It is quite extreme to claim that voting doesn’t have real life consequences. If 1,000 reasonable minded people all think that way and a ballot measure to not impose ridiculous abortion measures, legalise medical marijuana, extend medicare for thousands of people who cannot afford it…all fails by 900 votes, say, in California, then that would be thousands (perhaps millions) of people pointlessly suffering from it, serious real life consequences that not only affect them but create a cascade of problems that affect everyone around them. And that is just about ballot measures. This all reminds me of someone who used to complain that Philosophy was pointless because it doesn’t give immediate real life absolute answers to things. That is not only not true but very short sighted. Voting probably doesn’t change your life over night (but that’s not impossible) but not-voting can enable people pointlessly suffering over time.

    #33747

    Davis
    Moderator

    Yes. Second time voting, haven’t voted since 2008. Can’t wait until this goddamn crap is over with.

    Trump is utterly distained and hated by the overwhelming majority of people in Canada, Western-Europe and New Zealand. His very name raises people’s blood pressure and causes lots of rolling eyes.  Remember he has seriously disrupted world trade, insulted just about every one of our leaders and helped make most political discourse in all democratic countries more toxic. Dislike of trump was as high as 90% in Canada at some point (strong dislike). I can promise you that most people in the rest of the democratic world cannot bloody wait for Trump to go and a LOT of people are extremely eager to see Trump give a concession speech. Only it will likely be the first time in decades a leader of a democratic country doesn’t give a concession speech and instead calls the whole vote foul, deflects all blame, changes the subject and acts as though he actually won. It would, in fact, be beautiful to see  Trump refuse to go with the secret service dragging him out of the White House. But that is asking too much from the non-existent Gods…I’m sure.

    #33748

    Ivy
    Participant

    BILL GATES 2024!!!?

    just kidding

    I wish.

    Now there is a man who knows what the fuck he’s doing. He could lead us out of this crisis.

    The United States has officially become a shit hole country.

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