Can AI be contained? When has containing technology ever happened?

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Jake,

Guy in that vid is slightly unhinged. Don’t ya think?

Yes, and on this thread, you said you produced this video. :

Is spirituality minus the spirit still spiritual?

We can safely say that this is the modern version of Memorex and not live, but is that you or are you just “friendly Charles Manson”-adjacent?

My apologies for saying otherwise if it’s not you, but it does make for some bizarre viewing and he does have equally bizarre supporters.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Enco, thanks for that.

No that damn sure is not me. I aint got no hair nor am i nearly that whacked out insane.
I know who it is though. He was saying some insane shit on FB. I tried to reason with him. Pointless, that….

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Jake,

All right. I’m sorry for the case of mistaken identity, though I still contend that a human life of good things devoid of work is it’s own variety of delusion. Even retirees who can afford to not work still sweat over their investments and like exerting themselves on hobby farms or cleaning the boat at the local slip.

[UnseenParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Jake, All right. I’m sorry for the case of mistaken identity, though I still contend that a human life of good things devoid of work is it’s own variety of delusion. Even retirees who can afford to not work still sweat over their investments and like exerting themselves on hobby farms or cleaning the boat at the local slip.

Who are these hordes of people who won’t work if they get a check?

How do you define “work”? Does it only include a traditional “job,” or managing one’s investment portfolio?

Does work not include gardening, babysitting, caregiving, cooking, gardening, shopping, housekeeping, painting, writing, being a crossing guard, and the other things someone with time on their hands might be doing?

Will some just laze around watching TV and eating bonbons? Sure. Some will, but why it that an excuse to deprive the rest of a more comfortable life?

[jakelafortParticipant]

Enco there is clearly value or meaning that is attached to work. Work work work. Wok like dis. Talk like dat. How we derive meaning as we go around the merry go round will redound to the ground as those with a cornucopia astound.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

Who are these hordes of people who won’t work if they get a check?

FDR and LBJ created multiple generations of these.

How do you define “work”? Does it only include a traditional “job,” or managing one’s investment portfolio?

Does work not include gardening, babysitting, caregiving, cooking, gardening, shopping, housekeeping, painting, writing, being a crossing guard, and the other things someone with time on their hands might be doing?

By work, I mean any peaceful, honest exertion of physical or mental effort to provide the means of living, whether it is self-sufficient production, old-time barter, or for a medium of exchange i.e. money. And yes, all of those tasks listed can be and are done for money.

Will some just laze around watching TV and eating bonbons? Sure. Some will, but why it that an excuse to deprive the rest of a more comfortable life?

Look, how can people have a more comfortable life when this U.B.I. will result in inflation of their currency rendering it worthless and/or taxation of every point of the production and distribution of products and services i.e. the Value Added Tax you proposed? Are you aware that Hungary has a Value Added Tax of 27 percent and the Nordic nations everybody loves to dote on have similar rates, on top of other high taxes?

And how else can U.B.I. end when people are paid to merely exist and yet are taxed to death when they produce the very things on which they spend?

Look, you have access to a device as little as 2.7 ounces which replaces 57 pounds of equipment from just 10 years ago, that holds the sum of all cumulative human knowledge, and more on the way from our AI creations, including knowledge of Economics…and yet you are this willfully ignorant of Economics and lacking basic reading comprehension?

I am sorry, but for all of this, I have no other choice but to drop The Sanford Dummy Reel:

• This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Eliminating redundancy

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Jake,

Enco there is clearly value or meaning that is attached to work. Work work work. Wok like dis. Talk like dat. How we derive meaning as we go around the merry go round will redound to the ground as those with a cornucopia astound.

Work is how we all get a piece in the cornucopia. It provides the worker with a paycheck, the customer or client with a good or service, and as Scottish Enlightenment Economist Adam Smith observed, both parties are better off than before the exchange took place, so each pursuing their own rational self-interest makes an outcome that is better than the sum of it’s parts.

That means a lot to me and everybody else who so benefits.

[UnseenParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

By work, I mean any peaceful, honest exertion of physical or mental effort to provide the means of living, whether it is self-sufficient production, old-time barter, or for a medium of exchange i.e. money. And yes, all of those tasks listed can be and are done for money.

Thanks for admitting what I was about to point out: Your concept of work seems to be involved in being a cog in the wheels of business and industry. One has to wonder how many worthwhile things are NOT being created or are NOT happening because someone is tied down 40+ hours a week to some form of mind-numbing drudgery.

Care to guess?

Are you aware that Hungary has a Value Added Tax of 27 percent and the Nordic nations everybody loves to dote on have similar rates, on top of other high taxes?

I don’t see a groundswell of tax protests in Sweden, do you? Perhaps they are satisfied with not having to face the risk being bankrupted by the sort of common maladies that affect most of us eventually in our lifetimes. Or perhaps they are happy they don’t have to spend money on a car, car repairs, or car insurance because their public transportation options are a viable substitute. Perhaps they don’t mind having free or low-cost access to higher education and enjoy not starting out life saddled with debt the way many American students are. Perhaps they are happy that because of the things they don’t have to worry about or pay for, they are freer to enjoy their lives and, oh (this should fill you with glee) start a business, for example.

As for Hungary, other than protests against a particular change in tax law primarily affecting people in the arts in Hungary, I see no groundswell of tax protests there, either.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

Thanks for admitting what I was about to point out: Your concept of work seems to be involved in being a cog in the wheels of business and industry. One has to wonder how many worthwhile things are NOT being created or are NOT happening because someone is tied down 40+ hours a week to some form of mind-numbing drudgery.

Care to guess?

Work also includes being an Independent Contractor or a business one’s self, and as I said above, that involves more time and effort than merely working a regular job. And, not coincidentally, this is a source of many worthwhile things that people pursue recreationally and separate from the world of work.

I don’t see a groundswell of tax protests in Sweden, do you? Perhaps they are satisfied with not having to face the risk being bankrupted by the sort of common maladies that affect most of us eventually in our lifetimes. Or perhaps they are happy they don’t have to spend money on a car, car repairs, or car insurance because their public transportation options are a viable substitute. Perhaps they don’t mind having free or low-cost access to higher education and enjoy not starting out life saddled with debt the way many American students are. Perhaps they are happy that because of the things they don’t have to worry about or pay for, they are freer to enjoy their lives and, oh (this should fill you with glee) start a business, for example.

As for Hungary, other than protests against a particular change in tax law primarily affecting people in the arts in Hungary, I see no groundswell of tax protests there, either.

Saying that a system is good on the grounds that no one is protesting against it amounts to an Argument from Ignorance Fallacy.

Moreover, tax protest can consist of the quieter, more subtle method of withdrawing capital and assets (and yourself) from the tax authorities. Ireland had that in mind when it exempted artists from income taxation, as does Monoco with it’s lack of income taxation and as do many of the tax havens in the Caribbean.

Oh, and we also see it within the U.S. with people from the high-tax, high-crime, high-urban decay States of New York, Illinois, and California fleeing for States where their lives and the fruits of their labor are much safer.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Addendum

[UnseenParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Work also includes being an Independent Contractor or a business one’s self, and as I said above, that involves more time and effort than merely working a regular job. And, not coincidentally, this is a source of many worthwhile things that people pursue recreationally and separate from the world of work.

Still, if it’s not tied to the world of business and finance and the economy, for you it’s not really “work.” Right?

Moreover, tax protest can consist of the quieter, more subtle method of withdrawing capital and assets (and yourself) from the tax authorities.

And you accuse me of arguing from ignorance? LOL Surely, arguing from speculation falls under that rubric.

Oh, and we also see it within the U.S. with people from the high-tax, high-crime, high-urban decay States of New York, Illinois, and California fleeing for States where their lives and the fruits of their labor are much safer.

I guess you’re allergic to terms like “some people” or “a few people.” I live in Oregon, and I’m telling you I won’t be fleeing to states like Arkansas, Mississippi, or Iowa because then I’d be living in Arkansas, Mississippi, or Iowa.

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