Competition, cooperation and their opposites

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This topic contains 24 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Clearsky 3 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #11063

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I’ve been looking at this interesting diagram showing the two dimensions of social living: competition / power and cooperation / affiliation.  That is the idea for the scheme.  I’ve been trying to fill in blanks in the diagram.  “Cooperation” covers any kind of prosocial or altruistic behaviour.

     

     

    It has to line up properly with “unconditional love”.

     

     

    #11070

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I think the two left hand sides line up, because unconditional harm is either done: 1) deliberately; or 2) through indifference.

    #11071

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    “sheeple” lines up with generosity.  Perhaps “sheeple” should be replaced with “self-effacing”, which is more in the same category of meaning (interpersonal relations) as the other three.

    #11076

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Bottom left hand should be “passive-aggression / resentment”, and bottom right hand should be “self-effacing altruism”.

    #11098

    daughterofkarl
    Participant

    Hello, Simon Paynton,

    I’m glad you’re rethinking your use of “sheeple” in the bottom right of your chart.  Referring to people who fall into the category of being both cooperative and passive as “sheeple” is…well, sort of passive-aggressive, to be honest, and seems to betray a distinct bias.   Nowhere else is the terminology you use so obviously pejorative and non-objective.  Self-effacing is probably more what you mean, yes?  It isn’t your position that the only positive form of cooperation/affiliation is that which is both cooperative and competitive, right?     Or am I misunderstanding what it is you are trying to convey with the chart.  I am reading it as a tool for quantifying a range of human behaviors/responses on a continuum.  Is that correct?    Perhaps it is the terminology you are using.   If you are striving to create a chart that indicates opposing forces, it might be more accurate and objective to say the opposite quality to “passive” is “active,” not “competitive.”  The opposite quality to “submission” is “assertion.” (Or you could go with “domination,” but that is a pretty loaded term as well.)   My point is that, if you are seeking to create a tool that can be used to, more or less, objectively quantify human behavior/responses in social environments along a continuum, you might want to consider using terminology that is less emotionally-weighted and value-laden.   Likewise, you might want to consider that the opposite quality to cooperation might more accurately be described as “isolation” rather than “defection?”

    Or maybe I am just completely misreading the chart and your intent.   That’s been known to happen!  🙂

    Cheers!

    DOK

    #11106

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    @daughterofkarl – the only two labels given originally were “competition/power” and “cooperation/affiliation” which correspond with “me first” and “you/we first”.  All the rest were blank, so I decided to try and fill them in.  You’re right, sheeple is the wrong word and out of keeping with the rest.

    Whatever the rest says, what will be will be.  I’m just filling in the spaces and seeing what turns out.  I think it turns out to be a useful framework that ties into the axis of “unconditional love”.

    What is generosity if not self-effacing?  And it’s useful for conceptualising narcissism.

    #11108

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    It isn’t your position that the only positive form of cooperation/affiliation is that which is both cooperative and competitive, right?

    It’s more that fairness is a balance between “what I want” and “what you want”.

    I am reading it as a tool for quantifying a range of human behaviors/responses on a continuum. Is that correct?

    Yes, along two dimensions: “me concern” and “you concern”.

    terminology

    “Competition / cooperation” are standard terms and they express the essence of the situation in my opinion.  If you think about it, if one is “an army of one”, then competition is inevitable.

    #11113

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    terminology

    Along with competition and power, this axis also covers straightforward self-interest, which, as you say, is less emotionally charged.  But competition and power belong on there too.

    fairness” – Michael Tomasello talks about two dimensions to morality, and these axes would correspond to those: altruism and fairness.

    #11118

    Clearsky
    Participant
    1. I’m Not OK, You’re OK
    2. I’m Not OK, You’re Not OK
    3. I’m OK, You’re Not OK
    4. I’m OK, You’re OK

    Book I’m OK – You’re OK is a 1967 book by Thomas Anthony Harris

    1. On 4 possible life positions.
    #11119

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I’m OK – You’re OK

    It’s a good framework that seems to work.

    #11120

    Clearsky
    Participant

    Yep I think if one can see that some things are non-zero sum games.

    That sometimes I am OK, you are OK.  It can be a psychologically healthy way of perceiving the world.

    Like the Nonzero foundation

    frontpage

     

    Or this Book by Robert Wright

     

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonzero%3A_The_Logic_of_Human_Destiny?wprov=sfla1

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by  Clearsky.
    #11144

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Thanks to @daughterofkarl and @clearsky for your helpful suggestions.  I feel this is the final version I want to use: “narcissism” lives in the top left quadrant very nicely.

    #11145

    tom sarbeck
    Participant

     

    Simon: I feel this is the final version

    Hey, do you FEEL …, or do you think ….

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by  tom sarbeck.
    #11147

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    do you FEEL …, or do you think ….

    Both?  One is a polite version of the other I guess.

    #11159

    tom sarbeck
    Participant

     

    Simon: One is a polite version of the other?

    Two ways to learn: feeling and thinking. One more common in the arts; the other more common in the sciences.

    For eons boys were more rewarded for thinking and girls more rewarded for feeling. Each was punished for doing the other.

    That women have become majorities in law schools and medical schools portends important economic and societal changes.

    The news tells of men who don’t want to share power.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by  tom sarbeck.
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