Did the CDC f*ck up?

Homepage Forums Science Did the CDC f*ck up?

This topic contains 27 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Unseen 9 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 13 posts - 16 through 28 (of 28 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #41259

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen and Feloow Unbelievers,

    By the bye, I am double-vaxxed with the Pfizer, single-boosted and waiting for the next booster, I wear my mask at work and in other stores and clinics out of respect for that ancient idea of private property rights, but never in my own vehicle or apartment, where no one else goes. I am no anti-science QAnonner and I think I got this G-for-Goldilocks-Spot just right. 👌🖖👍🤜🤛

    #41262

    Autumn
    Participant

    Maylasia, the supply for 65% of the world’s condoms, shut down it’s condom factories in response to COVID-19. So, is it right to stop the spread of COVID-19 by furthering the spread of syphillis, gonorrhea, herpes, and HIV/AIDS,

    There are plenty of ways people can reduce transmission of these diseases on their own besides condom usage.

    as well as all the problems created by unwanted pregnancies that get born and grow up and get unoeashed on the world?

    As well as ways to prevent or address unwanted pregnancy. If we’re literally relying on Malaysia to babysit our sexual habits we have bigger problems than condom shortages.

    And here at home, the CDC, WHO, and FDA couldn’t agree on the efficacy of masks, which masks to use, how many masks, where to use masks, and Fauchi lied about the necessity of masks while government hoarded masks.

    It was an emergent situation. Early on, much less was known about transmission vectors and rates, and there were shortages of medical masks in many places, so we ended up with a lot of mixed messaging on how necessary or useful they were for the average person.

    Governors also banned “price-gouging,” which is the worst thing to do in a crisis because it means needed supplies get bought up and stores get stripped bare. If merchants were free to charge what they want, people don’t panic-buy,

    Price gouging was a response to panic buying. People were also buying large quantities specifically so they could resell at exorbitant rates because they knew there were shortages. At the time, there were mass layoffs, so allowing companies to price gouge on things like food items and toilet paper would have put a lot of strain on lower and lower-middle income families.

    they buy just what’s needed, then factories rev up production more, product hecomes more plentiful, stores compete, and prices come back down.

    It was demand driven by a temporary mindset rather than a dramatic need for product (although, in cases such as toilet paper there was likely a shift in what types needed to be purchased with people spending more time at home). It’s unlikely most companies could have dramatically increased supply in the short term—we’re talking about the supply chain for entire industries here—especially with uncertainties around labour.

    The crisis also showed how the FDA is a barrier to medical progress. COVID-19 tests in the U.S. cost over $20 a piece but tests from the same company cost just $3 abroad and it’s because of the approval process, as well as import controls and duties.

    [snip]

    All this, and people still want government to run health care.

    Plenty of other countries with predominately public healthcare systems managed much better. It’s going to depend on what type of public system you put in and how it’s managed, but the idea that the current American system is superlative is suspect.

    #41263

    _Robert_
    Participant

    The crisis shows that despite warnings from prominent and sharp people like Bill Gate, neither the Trump government nor greedy private healthcare corporations had supplies or supply chains ready for this likely event. The CDC was trying to keep front line and essential workers safe given the shortage of PPE and they were immediately politicized by the tangerine Idi Amin. Always on the edge of disaster, that’s how we roll. Fucking corporations like airlines and hotel chains buying back their own stock for ten years and then suddenly begging for federal money to pay their employees within a few weeks of the crisis.

    #41264

    Autumn
    Participant

    All paper, no watermarks, no photo, no computer strip or chip, no lamination, just begging to be photoshopped and copied on any desktop printer…and they got copied too, creating a whole new fake ID black market.

    The passport system isn’t something new. Proof of vaccination has been used in many cases. I don’t think proof of vaccination has been used at such a wide scale in living memory (if ever). The system we have in place in BC uses QR codes that link to your vaccination record. I’m not really against proof of vaccination in principle—it’s a means of limiting transmission vectors and that makes sense—, but this is a situation where we end up needing citizens to police citizens for the policy to be effective. For instance, if you demand that restaurants get proof of vaccination in order to serve guests, who enforces that? The host or the servers?

    In a world where everyone either adhered to the system or was able to say, “Oh, proof of vaccination you say? Ever so sorry, but I was unaware. How embarrassing. Well, I guess I’ll just bid you a good evening and be on my way,” that wouldn’t be a big deal. But tensions are so high, that this is going to add stress to servers and customers a like. I don’t know that it will actually achieve the desired effect due to human behaviour.

    The epidemiological aspect of the virus is probably pretty manageable in terms of how it would transmit under ordinary human activity. And one might get to thinking if we could just regulate our own behaviour and cooperate to make sure no one was put out too bad by the interruptions to our normal way of life, we could pull through just fine. But human behaviour under pressure is the crux of the situation, I guess. We’re not prone to cooperate on that scale for any length of time. We’re bad at managing resource distribution. We’re bad at risk assessment. We’re bad at disseminating information. And we have other shortcomings besides.

    #41265

    Unseen
    Participant

    There is nothing to talk about. If you are gonna argue that a properly fitted N-95 mask doesn’t help curb transmission, then you are just an idiot. Given that Maher is not an idiot and wants to argue that wearing a mask is somehow a political/freedom issue or that the pandemic is not really “that bad”, then he is a careless prick. I have watched him belittle mask wearing almost every week. It cramps his super star lifestyle. I think what it took to defeat fascism. The sacrifices those people made and look at Americans now.

    Don’t strawman me with “a properly fitted N-95 mask doesn’t help curb transmission,” since I never said that. What I did say (or imply) is that by declaring the cloth mask disastrously ineffective and recommending instead a kind of mask, the N95, which is problematic in several ways, I don’t blame people for giving up on masking.

    Here are the problems with N95 masks:

    1) There are a confusing number of different kinds of N95 and KN95 masks; and…

    2) while for a year many people have been using the same mask(s) over and over, sanitizing between uses, N95 masks are disposable, meaning they become an ongoing expense, and because of this…

    3) there is an affordability issue, especially for those living on small, limited, or no incomes.

    Beyond the N95 thing, perhaps the most telling critique of the CDC is their tunnel vision. They are only concerned with stamping out the disease and give little or no consideration to the costs or damage their policies wreak on society.

    For example, there is the damage masking and distancing is doing to childhood development during formative years; the lost education resulting from remote schooling; the nutritional deficits caused by depriving low-income kids of school lunches, which were often the richest part of their daily meal plans.

    There is the increase in physical, mental, and even sexual abuse by forcing kids to spend time with parents angry and frustrated over lost jobs or pared-back hours. Anger and frustration are a well-known source of what’s called “displaced aggression.” This is where the direction of hostility is directed away from the source of frustration or anger and toward something or someone else having nothing to do with the source.

    In only thinking about the damage caused by the disease, the CDC may be putting society in a classic “the cure is worse than the disease” situation.

    #41266

    _Robert_
    Participant

    There is nothing to talk about. If you are gonna argue that a properly fitted N-95 mask doesn’t help curb transmission, then you are just an idiot. Given that Maher is not an idiot and wants to argue that wearing a mask is somehow a political/freedom issue or that the pandemic is not really “that bad”, then he is a careless prick. I have watched him belittle mask wearing almost every week. It cramps his super star lifestyle. I think what it took to defeat fascism. The sacrifices those people made and look at Americans now.

    Don’t strawman me with “a properly fitted N-95 mask doesn’t help curb transmission,” since I never said that. What I did say (or imply) is that by declaring the cloth mask disastrously ineffective and recommending instead a kind of mask, the N95, which is problematic in several ways, I don’t blame people for giving up on masking. Here are the problems with N95 masks: 1) There are a confusing number of different kinds of N95 and KN95 masks; and… 2) while for a year many people have been using the same mask(s) over and over, sanitizing between uses, N95 masks are disposable, meaning they become an ongoing expense, and because of this… 3) there is an affordability issue, especially for those living on small, limited, or no incomes. Beyond the N95 thing, perhaps the most telling critique of the CDC is their tunnel vision. They are only concerned with stamping out the disease and give little or no consideration to the costs or damage their policies wreak on society. For example, there is the damage masking and distancing is doing to childhood development during formative years; the lost education resulting from remote schooling; the nutritional deficits caused by depriving low-income kids of school lunches, which were often the richest part of their daily meal plans. There is the increase in physical, mental, and even sexual abuse by forcing kids to spend time with parents angry and frustrated over lost jobs or pared-back hours. Anger and frustration are a well-known source of what’s called “displaced aggression.” This is where the direction of hostility is directed away from the source of frustration or anger and toward something or someone else having nothing to do with the source. In only thinking about the damage caused by the disease, the CDC may be putting society in a classic “the cure is worse than the disease” situation.

    All these so-called issues are bullshit excuses. How moronic are we just gonna expect our citizens become? But these same people that acquire and supposedly know how to operate guns and cars can’t figure out to acquire and rotate 4 or 5 masks for a month and then replace them when they look like it is time? Shit, when I see little kids wearing their freebee masks, they usually are doing a better job than adults. And so…then the virus goes on and on and mutates and the death toll mounts.

    Yeah, the cure of wearing a mask when indoor in a public place is worse than 1,000,000 dead bodies and the guilt and shame of knowing you may have killed your family member, all of the long-term health issues from those who survived that will go on for years, those people with other health issues who could not be cared for because of the dangerously overloaded hospitals and all of the fed-up health care worker who left the field. Yeah, I guess your point is fairly negligible but unfortunately very typical.

     

    #41267

    Unseen
    Participant

    @robert

    You didn’t address the tunnel vision issue much at all.

    Your other arguments sound painfully like the sort of argument I get from conservatives in favor of placing obstacles in the way of people of color, poor people, people who are illiterate or who can’t speak English yet, to be able to vote: “Is it really that hard to go out and get an ID? or take time off from work if they need to? stand in line for however long it takes? or learn the common language?”

    Here on Earth things are not as easy as well-chosen words can make them sound.

    #41268

    Unseen
    Participant

    Do children really need masks anymore? This Brit is an expert giving science-based views and he posts on Covid usually at least once per day with the latest news.

    #41269

    Unseen
    Participant

    BTW, to anyone who thinks the left is immune to authoritarianism, I have four words: Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot.

    Six words if I add Adolf Hitler who, it can be argued, was a National SOCIALIST, after all and given the definition of socialism as “a political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterized by social ownership of the means of production.” While the Hitler and the Nazis didn’t literally own German industries, they treated them as if they did.

    #41270

    jakelafort
    Participant

    It is rather disingenuous to suggest a genuine concern for welfare of children who are stuck at home and thus incapable of sufficient social and educational development. We all know the real reason parents want kids back in school is schools are tantamount to day care. Schools being in loco parentis saves sanity and money of parents and gives them greater freedom to fornicate and create more little ones.

    So lets just be straight up and admit what is at stake. Our lives were difficult enough status quo ante bellum. The hell with the risk however negligible that some kids will croak in schools. Get back to the crappy old which is better than the new awful. What with companies now understanding how easily employees can work from home there will be a more libertine mien as lustful parents create more little monkeys to replace the covid victims.

    This is just a modest proposal…

    #41271

    Autumn
    Participant

    So lets just be straight up and admit what is at stake. Our lives were difficult enough status quo ante bellum.

    Part of what I liked about the start of the pandemic was that it was causing an awful lot of people to rethink their values and to reconsider their relationship with employers. When you’re in the rhythm of your career, there can be a lot of dysfunctional things you just sort of take for granted. It’s not that we never talked about it; it was more that conversations tended to end with a shoulder shrug and a ‘what can you do?’ Difficulties around having and raising children certainly wasn’t least among our concerns.

    It seems some of that questioning persisted throughout the pandemic, but I wonder how long that will last. I mean, how many of us were still in the daily grind because we felt it actually served a purpose and how many of us mostly just didn’t want the bottom to fall out of our lives completely?

    #41272

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Autumn, i was tongue in cheek. But you have hit on a big issue.

    I was miserable and depressed working as an attorney. I began to question how sensible it was to stay the course. Finally in my misery i missed a statute of limitations. When i finally decided to check whether suit could be filed i told my legal assistant that if i blew the statute i was out. No more law practice for me.

    That is a fairly common mistake by attorneys and i easily could have buried the problem. Instead i owned up to my fuck-up to my client and offered to pay her what i thought she would net. She appreciated my candor but sued me anyways. Meanwhile i quit. I really wanted to work at something physical. Hard labor would have served me well. Turns out i just began to win and win playing horses and never stopped.

    As atheists most of us know we go around the merry-go-round one time. If you are miserable and have a way of altering your trajectory then do it.

    #41276

    Unseen
    Participant

    It is rather disingenuous to suggest a genuine concern for welfare of children who are stuck at home and thus incapable of sufficient social and educational development. We all know the real reason parents want kids back in school is schools are tantamount to day care. Schools being in loco parentis saves sanity and money of parents and gives them greater freedom to fornicate and create more little ones.

    How cynical and holier-than-thou can one get? Kids in school allowed parents to work and provide for their families. I’ve now stared Pure Evil in its ugly face. Honestly, Jake, it’s a more serious matter than your parody implies.

    Or were you really not being serious?

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by  Unseen.
Viewing 13 posts - 16 through 28 (of 28 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.