Everything you know about Covid is wrong
This topic contains 86 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Unseen 2 weeks, 6 days ago.
February 15, 2023 at 4:03 am #46932
Yeah disingenuous is the kinder word to describe my perception of Dr Bob.
And to Unseen’s credit he unlike Dr. Bob is not an ideologue. Ideologues gear their polemics and talking points to preservation of their ideology. Facts be damned. Glaring weaknesses in their particular ideology are unseen or what is worse, circumvented. Thus, integrity is compromised. If you are a true zealot in any political movement/party or religion and you are not a complete idiot or completely duped then you lack integrity.
Unseen is free to see and explore because he is not wearing blinders to protect his feeling of attachment. It is to Unseen’s credit that he is on the left of the issue and the right of that…February 15, 2023 at 5:19 am #46935
Even though the virus was novel, and the CDC was working off of limited data, most of the stupid shit came from Trump Administration misstatements or other people’s misinterpretations.
The initial study data before the virus mutated showed that vaccinated people did not catch the bug and that the bug could survive for days on surfaces. So the initial guidance was based on that.
As the virus mutated, they had to change the guidance. Smart people understood this. Turned out you could still catch it but got less sick and you didn’t shed as much. The CDC was not communicating effectively and needs its procedures overhauled, true. Trump was beating them up daily and they caved too much. If we had a normal Pres, like Obama, things would have been much better.
You are gonna have to show the source for this official CDC guidance below because it’s either bullshit or missing the qualifiers that I added for you.
It’s no worse than the flu. (I call bullshit, right off the bat they were saying it was like SARS)
Washing hands and surfaces are the most-important preventions. (BS, never the MOST)
No need for masking. (Only if vaccinated, only at first, but please stay home and save the N95 for med workers)
Once vaccinated, you can’t spread it. (You are less likely, true)
Once vaccinated, you can’t get it. (This initial guidance was updated; true you are less likely)
Once you get it, you can’t get it again. (Guidance was that you are less likely)
Rural communities don’t have to worry. (Less dense, less likely, statistically true)
Young people don’t have to worry. (If healthy, statistically true)
I give your video an ‘F’ for F A I L. Your argument is fairly disingenuous and has the typical, right-wing numbskull level of little detail. You made a statement that Everything I know about Covid is wrong and you have shown me that nothing that I know about covid is wrong.February 15, 2023 at 12:01 pm #46939
What he said. (Robert)
In 2020, every time Fauci, Trump, and their whole cast of characters came on the set to warn us, guide us, and in Trumps case make it look like it was the flu and all we needed to do was drink bleach to eradicate it, I wanted to put my foot through the TV.
He had those folks from the CDC saddled and broken. They couldn’t say shit that didn’t contradict the bullshit he was spewing. Not that Fauci didn’t try. For trying to guide us he was vilified by the right. He didn’t toe the line on Trumps, and by extension, the conservative party bullshit about it going away by itself and that there was no need to wear mask’s because “Freedom! Dagnabit!”
Meanwhile New York City, which may have been the epicenter of North Americas Covid problem, was left deserted. In March of 2020 I was considered “Essential” so I had to go into the City to work. I emerged from the desolate Subway station to find all the lights in Times Square on but not a soul in the street. Talk about eerie. Talk about reality.
Not that the CDC or any government agency doesn’t run a line of bullshit every so often cause they all do. But in March of 2020 everyone was going by their best guess. And I believe that it was scientific and I believe that the majority of people in the CDC choose to tell us everything that they think is true.
I wore the mask. I kept six feet away, I isolated, I got vaccinated and boosted. I did everything they asked me to do. Haven’t gotten Covid despite being surrounded by a ton of people at work and in the City. Probably just luck right?February 15, 2023 at 4:05 pm #46943
How Fauci and the team bent over for Trump was sickening. I wonder whether the politicization of the pandemic was fueled by Trump. Not simply in USA but throughout the voild. I remember reading how other nations followed dumb as can be US drug policy. None of the so called sacrifices are jack squat compared to the sacrifices made by 100s of millions of people throughout history. Hell even beginning in the 20th century. Yet Trump supporters made it out to be some big fundamental freedom issue. No doubt things were exacerbated when guidance was uncertain or contradicted.
What a great area this is going to be for university courses on critical thinking.February 15, 2023 at 5:05 pm #46944
Indeed Jake! I have always respected Unseen, even when I disagree with things (and this is only from time to time) in a flabbergasted manner. Same with Enco (who I tend to disagree with a little more often) but I see as a contributor in good faith. I have felt the same way about some Christian apologists who have come by and debated with us in good faith (always lovely). While there is contention, disagreement, colourful engagement and even severe ideological differences here, I still believe most users argue in good faith, respect one another and are even fond of one another. I disagree that this website has diminished in the last few years and I resent the patronising insinuation that it has.February 15, 2023 at 5:50 pm #46945
For all the talk about Medical Misinformation/Disinformation/Malinformation (MDM *Growl!* 🦁) no one in Government is talking or acting against such obviously or at least potentially unhealthy, deadly things on YouTube and TikTok such as:
* Fat Pride/Fat Acceptance,
* Fast-food and candy Advertisements,
* Vintage pre-1971 tobacco commercials,
* “Extreme sports,”
* Bull-Riding and Bull-Fighting,
* Stupid dares like cinnamon-snorting and eating Tide Pods,
and so much else that can take away self-generated, self-sustaining action.
What’s more, at least some of these unhealthy, deadly things (e.g. smoking and obesity) overlap with demographics most at risk for COVID-19.
Jean Shepherd, the creator of A Christmas Story, had a radio program in the Sixties (with episodes archived on YouTube) where he talked about all the silly medical misinformation parents told kids and kids told each other, like:
* “Don’t crack your knuckles! It’ll cause arthritis!”
* “Don’t make that face! It’ll freeze that way!”
* “Wait 30 minutes after you eat before you swim or you’ll get the cramps and drown!”
* “Don’t eat from that turkey just out of the oven! You might get worms!”
* “Drinking Coca-Cola and taking aspirin will get you high!”
* “You can get stoned from smoking dried banana peels!”
Government sure does pick and choose on what it considers MDM and what it puts down “The Memory Hole.”
February 19, 2023 at 3:25 am #46983
- This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spacing
- This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by TheEncogitationer. Reason: Closing a tag
You made a statement that Everything I know about Covid is wrong and you have shown me that nothing that I know about covid is wrong.
My very first take on that topic title was “clickbait”, and not necessarily a true representation of Unseen’s fleshed out opinion. Superlative. But with possibly good data in the discussion, anyway. (Thinking this out later, apologies to Unseen, for this topic’s title is similar to story titles that have been common for decades. It is only a very mild form of clickbait, in my opinion… or “coin bait” if we’re talking newspaper vending machines. I’m recently obsessed with the word clickbait. And “viralism”…)
@robert, as for good data interpretation, I’d grade that annotated list of yours as “A+”, because it also includes some insight into how good people with good intentions can be misconstrued, mischaracterized, and muted, for political (or headline-making) purposes. I’ve almost eliminated my use of the word “tribalism” as a way to explain today’s extreme politicisation, because it seems to me that “viralism” is the bigger disease we’re suffering from, which is the media and political machine’s adopted tactic of making their self-serving memes spread the fastest, whether with clickbait articles and posts or by stirring up angst, hate, and physical rebellion amongst political party minions.
Events leading me toward declaring viralism in media and politics as an efficiently damaging corruption tool: China’s control of social media to control its population; the rise of (e.g.) Twitter, Facebook, Bannon/Trump, probably De Santis, and a plethora of other political shit stirrers and kooks; online terrorist recruitment (although I haven’t heard a lot about that, recently); Google and Youtube’s worsening search results that steer people more toward what THEY want you to click on and less toward what you’re actually looking for.
The theme again, paraphrased, is “virilism for profit, politics, and personal ego reinforcement”. Tribalism has always existed, having had some evolutionary origins plus later morphing of cultural practices, but it is newly enabled mass viralism that amplifies tribalism to preternatural levels. (E.g. think Alex Jones. OK, I’ll stop here.)
March 2, 2023 at 9:20 pm #47206March 3, 2023 at 12:45 am #47207
- This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by PopeBeanie. Reason: typos and improved clarity in a few paragraphs... several hours later
The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions.
Relatively low numbers of people followed the guidance about wearing masks or about hand hygiene, which may have affected the results of the studies.
Four studies were in healthcare workers, and one small study was in the community.
Well, what a fine turd of a “report”.March 4, 2023 at 2:38 am #47227
UnseenParticipantMarch 5, 2023 at 1:06 am #47246
@robert Exactly WHEN do you expect people to stsrt wearing masks properly, anyway? I thought so. So I think we need to do our assessment of whether masks work from there.
It turns out that masks do diddly-squat.
That last statement is the kind that kills gullible people, and enables disease to spread. I want to cover the first Campbell supposedly-meaningful video, point by point, while I still sympathize with the previous quote (above) that most people don’t know shit about how to wear masks, and that even includes a significant percentage of medical professionals who don’t think much further than just following traditional guidelines.
- WRT the theater of tossing his masks and showing fogged glasses, I add 3M memory foam strips to my masks, which are sold with descriptions like “keep your glasses from fogging up”. I buy them to keep my mask sealed while breathing in. My masks collapse when I breathe in, because air has to go through the mask instead of around it. So even before I get a minute into the video, I see his contagious stupidity as the theme.
- I looked at the Cochrane review when it came out, and could determine, even before reading scientific criticisms of it, that it relies too heavily on old research. It has only one study citing the covid epidemic, and they said some studies were “poor” in confidence factor, with the best confidence I saw saying “moderate”. Even a cursory skim of the summary and recommendations clearly states that more studies are needed to fill in some significant gaps.
- I ran a quick google search for publications of the past year. Can you give this one a five minute skim?
Full disclosure, I am very pro-mask biased, and have been since pre-covid when smoke from forest fires starting in 2017 became serious health threats. Albeit I’m not a bona fide scientist I’ll share an anecdote.
I’ve owned four or five air quality instruments (AQI), for the sake of being sure about determining trustworthiness and judging their consistency. I’ve used a CPAP machine every single night (except for four or five nights) for perhaps seven or eight years of treatment for sleep apnea, with past experience in deep sea diving training and as a certified scuba instructor. I learned during fires that affected my area that a simple box fan with a HEPA rated furnace filter could clear up smoke in my apartment completely within 20 minutes.
I bought a full-face snorkeling mask, replaced the snorkel with a CPAP hose, kludged a valve to force airflow in through the hose and out through valves in the mask. The other end of the hose I connected to a plastic milk jug with part of one side cut out to accommodate a filter I cut from a HEPA-rated vacuum cleaner bag. On a day when the smoke pollution measure an unhealthy 200 PM2.5 particles; above 50 is a relatively reasonable “unhealthy” maximum to breathe for a few hours. I put a portable AQI meter inside the jug, took it outside, and it measured zero PM2.5 in the filtered air.
Here’s the anecdote. On a day when the whole city’s population was expected to leave for health reasons, I put the jug in my backpack, donned the mask, and went out for a walk. I took an elevator up to the top of a parking garage, and looked out over blocks of the city, limited to perhaps 1/4 mile of visibility. There was not a single soul or moving vehicle in the city, or at least not for the several surrounding blocks I could see.
When covid hit and infections were peaking, I still had to run my errands like grocery shopping. Having had my vehicle in storage for a few years already to force myself to walk, bike, and bus (partly for desensitizing me of severe social anxiety I had at the time), I wore my space alien-looking apparatus a few times, and got plenty of looks from people, as you might expect. A bus driver asked to take a picture of me, so I posed for him. Who knows how he used the picture? I hope he had fun with it. (One-on-one, I was always good with people, it was just groups larger than a few people that debilitated me, often very badly.)
I’ve always been a science geek, and I’ve always been very aware of the large percentage of humans that not only don’t have a clue about how to think like a scientist, but they make fun of others who do, and many are even proud of proving constantly that they’re not a geek in any way. I don’t take it personally, as I believe that humans never evolved to become geeks, or well trained scientists. Just having complex language abilities — much less an interest in scientific methodology — didn’t come directly from genetic evolution, but from “artificial”, as in unplanned by nature, new ways of thinking and learning from quickly evolving culture.
Hence intelligent charlatans abound, misrepresenting lack of evidence as an acceptable reason to believe in and/or sell any fucking idea they want. That’s where I see diddly-squat. And with virilizability of click-baity headlines and social media links on demand, there’s plenty of it to go forth and multiply in a continuously-evolving sea of preternaturally gullible minds.
I’m finally convinced that overall, spending time on “Dr.” John Campbell’s videos = massive net negative enlightenment.
One more anecdote. Wearing effective masks while transiting via bus and while shopping, I’ve not gotten sick but once in three years. The one time I caught something was from visiting my daughters (who live together), the younger of which was unusually sick for 10 days or so, which was about how long I was sick. I was notably careless with my hands and face, and I assume, albeit possibly wrongly, that this was a virus transmitted by contact, not via air. The older daughter didn’t get sick.
March 5, 2023 at 1:42 am #47248
- This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by PopeBeanie. Reason: "one more anecdote"
Thanks for your thoughts and that linked article. Sheds some light for sure.
Do you have any opinion on transmission of covid outside?March 5, 2023 at 1:46 am #47249
@robert Exactly WHEN do you expect people to stsrt wearing masks properly, anyway? I thought so. So I think we need to do our assessment of whether masks work from there.
I wear mine properly. That is what really matters to me. It’s not that hard. In fact, I test the fit with incense. I literally cannot smell a burning patchouli stick in a smoked-out room when I have an N95 mask on good and tight. And if you ever cleaned out an inside space like a boat cabin loaded with tons of black mold you would also understand how good these masks really are. The masks are certified by independent labs. We know what they do.
So yeah, a lot of people are too careless or too stupid to wear a mask properly. Not me. There is a lot of denial out there. Over a million dead. Lots of guilt-ridden motive to exonerate yourself about why Grandpa or Uncle Joe is dead. You didn’t bother to wear your mask and now they are gone. Or they didn’t get vaccinated and now they are dead. Let’s justify that as well and “scream big pharma”. Morons.March 5, 2023 at 1:59 am #47250
Do you have any opinion on transmission of covid outside?
I believe there have been super-spreader events in outdoor crowds. I’ve noticed there are days when there’s no breeze at all, and I’m sure the risk is higher than with a breeze. I’m not pushing those opinions on anyone. In any case, outcomes are rarely definable as “all or nothing” scenarios, but by probabilities that we usually don’t have enough data to determine. I wear a mask while in a crowd, even outdoors, but I’m a weirdo who doesn’t care much about cultural styles or other peer pressure,March 5, 2023 at 2:07 am #47251
All of the science, all of the guidance, ought to be utterly divorced from politics. Count on humans to fuck up everything no matter how urgent.
I am outside hiking a lot and i never wear a mask but i move along and encounter few humans and buzz by em when i do. Often there is a breeze so i doubt there is much risk. But yeah i imagine big public events in which people are sardined and little to no breeze poses a risk.
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