Is Atheism a Religion?

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

I might still have doubts that standard atheism is true.

Simon, there is no “standard atheism”.  We atheists hold no degree of belief in any god existing. People either believe or they don’t. Our doubts or uncertainty about any belief we do hold can vary in intensity at any particular moment but this is not true of a position of disbelief, especially when there is zero evidence to suggest there is the slightest possibility that a specifically named theistic god is real. I don’t “kinda think” that a god may exist somewhere. I have no doubts about my lack of belief. Anyway I would have to believe in too many gods if I did.

[DavisModerator]

Simon Paynton wrote:

Has the Flying Spaghetti Monster caused a book with genuine wisdom in it, to be written? Does the Flying Spaghetti Monster help people in their everyday lives?

Would you please stop appealing to usefulness and the history of belief of something as somehow relevant to the existance of Gods?. As many of us have been over this with you too many times to count…all of that is IRRELEVANT when using blind faith to fill gaps of doubt vs. a sceptical-rational-empirical method to inquire if a claim is true. Ancient books providing no evidence is IRRELEVANT to if a supernatural entity with no evidence is real. Useful cultural rituals borne from it is IRRELEVANT to if a supernatural entity with no evidence is real. Even if a trillion people believed it were true is IRRELEVANT to if a supernatural entity with no proof is real. Even if a religion brought paradise and  eternal happiness to Earth is IRRELEVANT to if a supernatural entity is real if no evidence of its existence was found. You’d still need to use faith to plug in the holes of doubt per that God never showing itself or leaving appropriate evidence.

Some obvious veryday wisdom appearing in a book is IRRELEVANT to if a supernatural entity with no evidence is real. We have clearly failed in our numerous attempts to explain critical thinking and rational-empirical enquiry. I highly recommend you order a text book on the subject and read the shit out of it. The intellectual benefits are normous. Priceless.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Davis wrote:

usefulness and the history of belief

All I’m saying is, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not a good analogy because it bears no relation to everyday life, whereas the God of Christianity and Islam is intimately connected with everyday life.  So, we cannot compare the two.

[DavisModerator]

Simon Paynton wrote:

Davis wrote:

usefulness and the history of belief

All I’m saying is, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not a good analogy because it bears no relation to everyday life, whereas the God of Christianity and Islam is intimately connected with everyday life. So, we cannot compare the two.

Any my response is that it is nonsense, as a being with no evidence of its existence being connected to every day life is totally IRRELEVANT when comparing how people use faith to arrive at their fantastic conclusion vs those who use rational empirical methods. So no…they ARE comparable analogies…you don’t get a “get out of jail free” card with your faith just because a lot of deluded people believe in it nor if a lot of deluded people have incorporated aspects of it in their daily lives. The claim  is equal to any other supernatural claim regardless of how many people take it seriously or how many evocative books were written on it. IT…IS…IRRELEVANT.

Could you please humour us and answer her question?

[ClearskyParticipant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

Clearsky wrote:

Belief if God does not have this ability to make predictions which can be verified in our immediate experience.

What predictions would belief in God make? For one, I think that doing “what God wants” – unselfishly and bravely helping others – should be aided from “on high” or out of nowhere. Reality should bend to encourage this behaviour.

Maybe I have been unclear, “doing what God wants” is not a prediction and verification of the  existence of God. It is a consequence and behaviour of the belief in God.

Ill give you an example if I am in my house and I believe that its really cold outside I will put on a warm coat. But if I actually go out and see if its cold that’s verification.

If I see snow outside, I will predict that its cold, this is because in my previous experience of snow it’s always cold, in every instance of snow Its been cold for me and importantly other people.

I’ll give you one prediction of God belief, theology says that God is all knowing,all powerful,all present an importantly all beneficent.

Then I would predict there would be no natural evil (earth quakes, tusarnami) and no moral evil the obvious fact that there is.

That’s something that is for me anyway a major problem in that belief.

 

 

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

But God wouldn’t have to make things “perfect”.  If God is there to test us, then it all depends on how we behave in adverse circumstances.  In that case, the world is as it is and we just do our best to be ethical.

In this situation, we could expect help from God for behaving ethically.

[ClearskyParticipant]

That’s the kind of argument for existence of GOD, and the problem of natural and moral evil.

Its been discussed since Aquinas, one modern explanation is called the Alvin Plantinga’s free will defense.

I don’t like it, for the reason that its not logically coherent.

Think about what your saying,

In order for God to “test us” using our free will, God allows natural and moral evil in the world. To see if we act good or bad.

Then logically that means God is not all knowing, ( as he would already know our moral character is without testing).

Putting natural evil in the world to ” test ” people is not all Good.

Anyway as other people say its very difficult to change deeply held beliefs. However logical the opposing arguments are. Here is the links to both views. And the view from the bible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Plantinga%27s_free_will_defense

https://thebibleproject.com/explore/job/

 

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Clearsky wrote:

as he would already know our moral character is without testing

Educating, then.

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