Is spirituality minus the spirit still spiritual?

[rhonjonParticipant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

jakelafort wrote:

What do you mean by “spiritual”, in this case?”

See what i mean? Worthless word. If we can’t understand the speaker without asking their definition then we have come upon a word that ought to be obsolete and archaic.

I think “self-improvement” or “self-purification” are spiritual concepts that comes into play in this case.

 

If we had said “self-improvement or self-purification” we wouldn’t be on page 8 still arguing over the word “spirituality.” And let’s not argue over whether we should get rid of the word. Let’s just call a spade a spade and be done with it. So, rhon, what is a spade? Get outta here.

 

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Spirituality could be described as an umbrella term.  Also, many of its constituent concepts are vague and fuzzy too.  That doesn’t mean they don’t refer to anything.

[rhonjonParticipant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

Spirituality could be described as an umbrella term. Also, many of its constituent concepts are vague and fuzzy too. That doesn’t mean they don’t refer to anything.

 

What’s important—what will help us to start communicating and answering the original question—is not what the word “spiritual” means universally in all its ubiquitous manifestations. All we need to know is what the poster meant when he asked the question. Did he mean delving deep into our minds and emotions in order to achieve some kind of self-improvement? And by “spirit” did he mean a being outside the natural world? If so, then let’s answer the fucking question as he meant it.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Call a spade a spade. I have a foggy memory of that phrase being a public issue some time ago. I think many are unaware of any bigotry associated. The racist term i have heard on and off since childhood is gypped. You must know that one if you are an American. “That son of a bitch gyped me!” Just like spade a spade oft times the speaker knows not the racist origins although it is hard to imagine not ever realizing the connection between gypped an Gypsy. When i was practicing law i had a client who admonished me not to let em “Jew ya down.”

I won’t attach any significance to hurtful words or phrases unless i am sure the speaker knows of what they speak and speaks with intention to be hurtful. And in that spirit i close.

[rhonjonParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

Call a spade a spade. I have a foggy memory of that phrase being a public issue some time ago. I think many are unaware of any bigotry associated. The racist term i have heard on and off since childhood is gypped. You must know that one if you are an American. “That son of a bitch gyped me!” Just like spade a spade oft times the speaker knows not the racist origins although it is hard to imagine not ever realizing the connection between gypped an Gypsy. When i was practicing law i had a client who admonished me not to let em “Jew ya down.” I won’t attach any significance to hurtful words or phrases unless i am sure the speaker knows of what they speak and speaks with intention to be hurtful. And in that spirit i close.

 

No, I wasn’t aware of a racial connotation for calling a spade a spade.  I do know that gypsy refers to Egypt and has the same mean intention as the “N word.”

 

I even found an etymological connection between “husband” and “husbandry.” It goes back to when a man’s wife was his property, to be cared for and protected, but still property. Yet we still use the word “HUSBAND.” It’s hard to speak the truth with a language that was designed to support lies.

 

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

rhonjon wrote:

What’s important—what will help us to start communicating and answering the original question—is not what the word “spiritual” means universally in all its ubiquitous manifestations. All we need to know is what the poster meant when he asked the question.

It’s a broad subject, that deals with broad themes, like “society”, “science”, “morality”, etc.  So one person’s definition might not suit another person.

You could say, we know what we mean when we talk about those subjects, even if they are hard to define.  But I know fairly well what I mean by spirituality without God, in my case.  I mean, managing the pressure to thrive and to achieve goals, in adaptive ways that result in long term well being.

[jakelafortParticipant]

rhonjon,

Here i am surprised others can’t make connection between gypped and gypsy and i am not sure i ever did between animal husbandry and husband.

I was surprised to learn Jamaicans use the word Pickney in Patwah for children. It is an obvious derivative of Pickaninny. Pickaninny was term slave owners used for Black children and later used as a caricature. It is a term that is loaded. The Jamaicans i’ve known do not know the origin and say it has no negative connotations. And now i am wondering without searching if the ninny in Pickaninny has that same derivation.

Spade a spade goes back to Greeks of antiquity and lacks any racial component. There is a weird evolution so that at this point it is kind of an ambiguous phrase.
https://www.wbur.org/npr/224183763/is-it-racist-to-call-a-spade-a-spade

[UnseenParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

I think nuclear war is the greatest existential threat in our immediate future. Old patterns are continuing. Conventional war, even world war fought that way (good luck with that) a few hundred million, a billion…idk but nuclear war is a different story and the aftermath..wow.

Undoubtedly, some will survive any nuclear holocaust and, as the saying goes, “Anything thst doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.” After we receive our collective Darwin Award, we can look forward to being ever better at being human.

[UnseenParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

Call a spade a spade. I have a foggy memory of that phrase being a public issue some time ago. I think many are unaware of any bigotry associated.

Is bigotry a mere colloquial vocabulary choice or an intended use? Words and expressionse that once had racist meanings: “peanut gallery,” “paddy wagon,” “mumbo jumbo,” and “off the reservation.”

Should we stop using such terminology even if we use it without a racist intent?

Of course, we could also discuss what the word “racist” means. Are words like “towel head,” “Kike,” “greaser,” racist words or simply insults?

I’m an old guy. When I was a kid there were three races: white, black, and brown/red. Europeans, Africans, and Native Americans. Later on, we added the oceanics and the closely-related (as I understand it) Australian “aborigines” (a term which is kind of insulting on its own, implying they are proto-humans in some way).

We used to deprecate the French by calling them “frogs” and the British “limeys.” Should we start calling frogs “chubby salamanders”? and limes “green lemons”?

What is a “race” anymore? Hss the term become so broadly-used as to no longer have much meanin

All humor aside, is racism based on intent or mere usage?

And do I have to give up using “mumbo jumbo,” one of my favorite expressions for nonsense?

[UnseenParticipant]

rhonjon wrote:

No, I wasn’t aware of a racial connotation for calling a spade a spade.

In my early youth, in the 50’s, blacks were referred to as “spades” becsuse, presumably, spades were a black playing card suit. Of course, there were other words for blacks like “coons” and “jiggs” or “jigaboos.” By the 60’s, with the civil rights movement and advances, such terms were largely out of use along with “nigger.”

[rhonjonParticipant]

Unseen wrote:

jakelafort wrote:

Call a spade a spade. I have a foggy memory of that phrase being a public issue some time ago. I think many are unaware of any bigotry associated.

Is bigotry a mere colloquial vocabulary choice or an intended use? Words and expressionse that once had racist meanings: “peanut gallery,” “paddy wagon,” “mumbo jumbo,” and “off the reservation.” Should we stop using such terminology even if we use it without a racist intent? Of course, we could also discuss what the word “racist” means. Are words like “towel head,” “Kike,” “greaser,” racist words or simply insults? I’m an old guy. When I was a kid there were three races: white, black, and brown/red. Europeans, Africans, and Native Americans. Later on, we added the oceanics and the closely-related (as I understand it) Australian “aborigines” (a term which is kind of insulting on its own, implying they are proto-humans in some way). We used to deprecate the French by calling them “frogs” and the British “limeys.” Should we start calling frogs “chubby salamanders”? and limes “green lemons”? What is a “race” anymore? Hss the term become so broadly-used as to no longer have much meanin All humor aside, is racism based on intent or mere usage? And do I have to give up using “mumbo jumbo,” one of my favorite expressions for nonsense?

 

[jakelafortParticipant]

Unseen: Undoubtedly, some will survive any nuclear holocaust and, as the saying goes, “Anything thst doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.” After we receive our collective Darwin Award, we can look forward to being ever better at being human

Have you read about the survivors of Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Yikes. Much better to have been annihilated in a moment than survived for many in the ‘impact zone’

Strangely i have not read prognostications of post nuclear war. How much will it accentuate climate change? Will water be potable? Land arable? Genetic defects for offspring? Not sure any of us would want to be around for the fun. We all know the military weapons of 1945 are by comparison to today’s merely toys. It is not fun to contemplate. Yikes.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Unseen: Is bigotry a mere colloquial vocabulary choice or an intended use? Words and expressionse that once had racist meanings: “peanut gallery,” “paddy wagon,” “mumbo jumbo,” and “off the reservation.”

Mumbo jumbo? I don’t know the derivation. Bigotry is a set of ideas that typically include stereotypes and depict out-groups as having certain typically undesirable characteristics. Instead of looking at individuals and waiting to judge based on charcter and behavior stupid assumptions prevail. Bigotry or its residue often resides in words and expressions that are sometimes lost on the majority.

Both racism and bigotry mean very little as regards the individual under the microscope for bigotry or racism. On the other hand customs and traditions may continue to be offensive or harmful notwithstanding the individuals innocence in the matter.

I have no clue about mumbo jumbo. But ya best not refer to another as jumbo jumbo. Call em great big fat person!

[jakelafortParticipant]

“In my early youth, in the 50’s, blacks were referred to as “spades” becsuse, presumably, spades were a black playing card suit. Of course, there were other words for blacks like “coons” and “jiggs” or “jigaboos.” By the 60’s, with the civil rights movement and advances, such terms were largely out of use along with “nigger.”

Race is a construct. No doubt. ysumlin has hammered us over the head with that assertion! Even so i think there are insignificant differences between various population groups none of which justify the concept of race.

I think the more derogatory terms and slurs the greater the racism endured by the subject group. So it is a real battle between Blacks and Jews to determine which group has been shit on more.

[jakelafortParticipant]

rhonjon, you’ve copied text without adding your own!

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