Islamofiction

[David BootsParticipant]

The term islamophobia has as much credibility as the term ‘deep state’ and is about as an attractive a concept as fecal impaction.

What is there to be said about it that hasn’t already been said… that to fear a rapidly growing and violent dogma is not only rational but prudent. That it’s use as a blunt weapon to bludgeon valid criticism of a theology out of control is immoral and naive to the point of stupidity.

When the former head of the UK Equality and Human Rights Commission and the person who introduced the term to England issues a wake up call vis a vis islam then perhaps we can ignore the term and those who use it altogether.

[_Robert_Participant]

You would think it’s called Muslimaphobia…..lol. Islam has a couple of tenants that do make it collide with some of my favorite values, so it does depend on how far it’s followers wish to take it.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by  _Robert_.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Robert, Islam has nearly 2 billion tenants and a fraction as many tenets.  Obviously it is a stinking creed and a dangerous one at that and i subscribe to the prototypical anti-theist assessment of Islam and islamophobia.

Conversely i diverge from the typical take on belief v. believers.  It is easy enough to separate when the believer is any stripe of lip-service theism.  On other hand when believer is hard-core or orthodox it gets a lot tougher.  So that adherents of nazism, KKK,  Isis etc….not so easy

 

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

@davidboots – the Times article is behind a paywall, but there’s an equivalent Guardian article here.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Greater than half think homosexuality should be illegal!  Presumably the percentage of heteros who think so is even higher.

What a sick cult…

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

there are significant differences when it comes to some issues such as homosexuality and women’s rights.

– I think it’s mostly the extreme patriarchy that (say) atheists find so difficult to accept, and if that was absent, the picture would be very different.

39% agreed that “wives should always obey their husbands”, compared with 5% of the country as a whole.

Shaista Gohir, the chair of the Muslim Women’s Network UK … said that although any prejudice against gay people was unacceptable, the fact that nearly 50% of Muslims did not think homosexuality should be illegal was a sign that attitudes were shifting.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Simon, try extreme intolerance, hatred, rejection of reason, indoctrination, abuse, giving precedence to status over human dignity.

[David BootsParticipant]

What I find interesting is this remark about the methodology ‘It also wanted to avoid the perils of “code-switching”: the all-too-human minority impulse to fit in, to shape your response to meet the expectations of the majority population and to disguise the answer that you think will be too disturbing for people from a different culture to hear.’

I can only hope that this code-switching goes both ways. The muslims I know seem very ‘modern’ and I am guessing when they talk to me they are fitting in with ‘western’ type views. But it may also be the case that they hold ‘western’ type views but have to be careful how they express those views in the muslim community.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

The word “Islamophobia” is very ambiguous. It is seldom used to express a fear of Islam. Instead it is generally used as a propaganda term to express a perceived insult against Islam or to accuse someone of hatred or disrespect towards Muslims. More often than not, it is used for the sole purpose of shutting down debate. To me it is a bullshit term.

In a recent street debate with a Muslim apologist and a few Christians I was accused of being “Islamophobia” by one of the Christians for saying that blasphemy laws as used by some Muslim States are just a cover to shut down debate like the jailing of Raif Badawi Saudi Arabia or to persecute Christians like Asia Bibi in Pakistan. I asked them how highlighting human rights abuses was “Islamophobic”. Islam is an “ism”, an idea, a creed and I will criticize it all day long because it deserves it. I do the same when it comes to Catholicism.

I was then accused of being a racist.  When I asked for an explanation I was told (by another Christian) that I was insulting to “the Arabs”. The Muslim (an Egyptian) looked taken aback so I explained to him that the Christians were being racist by assuming that “all Arabs are Muslims” or vice versa.  I even had to explain to the dumb Christian that Muslims are not a “race” any more than Christians are.  Rather than admit they were wrong (or I was right), I was then accused of being a follower of “liberal secularism”.

I asked what a “liberal secularist” was to which I was sworn at by the other Christian. (It does not bother me in the least). I told him that I forgave him and was prepared to turn the other cheek if he was willing to engage in a civil debate. He nearly suffocated himself with anger (which was fucking hilarious). He managed to say that I should be apologizing to the Muslim and that I should learn something about Islam before I started to “disrespect it”.  I asked him which University he attended. No answer 🙂

I told him that I had a good knowledge of Islam and the Muslim apologist tried to explain to us all that we would need to learn Arabic to truly understand Islam.

I replied to him in Arabic saying “Arabic is a very difficult language to learn” and then in English asked him to translate it for the Christians.

I then walked away. Who needs a MasterCard?

PS I only know about 5 sentences in Arabic but don’t tell anyone.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

and this video…

[StregaModerator]

Reg, how DO you get yourself involved in street debates?

[MattParticipant]

I was then accused of being a follower of “liberal secularism”

Sounds like a pretty reasonable position to take… Liberal as in promoting and supporting freedom, secularism as in equal treatment of all religions and separation of church (and mosque) and state. It’s truly quite bizarre that these people thought this was some sort of counter argument or insult.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

I debate theists whenever I can. I sometimes help various atheist Ireland tables around the country. Most Saturday mornings on the main street in Dublin there are several different faith groups competing for souls. I “volunteer” to be saved and usually get into a Socratic debate with them as I ask them to explain their gods to me. I know, some people go to football or the zoo but this is my thing.  I sure you are all very surprised that I do this…but I like making atheists! It’s almost like this LOL.

Here is a good book to join in if you want to (you know you do!) More by the author which will give you a good idea of what I am about.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

@matt – “a follower of “liberal secularism”

– yes, it sounds like a good thing to me, it’s not an insult, it’s what we like to be.  I’m disappointed nobody calls me “gayboy” any more.

If you ask somebody why homosexuality is wrong, or other people, why women shouldn’t learn – they can never give you an answer that makes sense, and at that point, they tend to descend to shouting or flat-out irrationality.

[_Robert_Participant]

It strikes me funny how adherents of different religions who believe differently on all the essential points except for the existence of supernatural gods will usually unite against an atheist during a debate. It’s like social clubs..they insist you believe in “A” god….so even Thor will qualify you to join. As long as you are capable of “faith” you are an OK person in our book. Skeptics be gone ! Somehow they fear if you crack one load of bullshit, they all will crack too. Now on that, I agree with them.

[Author]

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