It's Fascinating the Places I Discover Evidence For Evolution

[trexdgrParticipant]

This last weekend I suffered a health crisis. In a nutshell, I control my hypertension with medication that I ran out of early last week and was unable to refill until Friday. Somehow during that period when I was off my meds I also became dehydrated.As a result, when I resumed my medication Saturday morning I experienced a sudden rapid drop in blood pressure that caused me to black out and my wife thought I was having a stroke. Needless to say, I ended up in the ER. I choose the hospital I was taken to for 2 reasons, it is the closest and my Mother received excellent care there about a year and a half ago when she broke her hip. However, this particular hospital is privately operated and is very up front about their Evangelical Christian position. They even have a display in their entrance way/waiting area celebrating the seven day Genesis Creation (myth). I feel that it would not be incorrect to assume that the ownership group and board of directors and probably upper management do not “believe in evolution”.

When it was discovered that I was dehydrated, the ER nurse started me on a intravenous saline drip. She explained to me that saline solution basically meant salt water, which, with my BS in geology, avid interest in paleontology, and a pretty good understanding of basic biology, I already knew. I also know that the salt ratio in a saline solution approximates the same in oceanic salt water. And since I understand evolution, I know why this is.

I ended being admitted overnight for observation, and while laying there I started wondering if the people who operate this particular institution could have explained to me why their supposedly omnipotent God saw fit to make man with organs unable to utilize fresh water but unable to survive by consuming salt water and therefore has to consume fresh water and then essentially convert it into salty sea water. Wouldn’t it have been much simpler for God to create us with either the ability to consume salt water or with organs able to utilize fresh water and not go through the extra step of converting one to the other? Did they realize that they may have saved my life, and probably many others by utilizing knowledge gained from the scientific investigation of the TOE? Unfortunately, I never was in the presence of any one representing the hospital that could have answered these questions. But I am constantly fascinated when I discover evidence for evolution when I am least likely to be looking for it.

For the record, I did receive excellent care and was thoroughly checked out to verify that I did not have a stroke or heart attack. Once rehydrated my blood pressure returned to normal and I should have no more problems, at least as long as I don’t forget to refill my prescriptions anyway.

[MattParticipant]

Small piece of evidence for evolution, giant piece of evidence against intelligent design.

[PopeBeanieModerator]

I also know that the salt ratio in a saline solution approximates the same in oceanic salt water.

“Saline” is about salt, but doesn’t define a specific concentration. It’s true that the concentration of salt used in IVs is about the same as the concentration of salt in the blood, but sea water is 3 to 4 times saltier than blood. It’s interesting that the salinity of sea water may have been a few times lower back when life evolved, and in fact even fish blood has about 1/4 the salinity of sea water, as do most of today’s vertebrates.

So discussing how this with a creationist about how it has to do with evolution could get complicated. 🙂 I’d like to know, for example, why fish did not evolve to have higher salinity blood. I assume it’s because life’s basic metabolic processes at the cellular level were pretty much optimized at the lower levels of salinity, and the goal was to adapt to varying salinities over time, which could only be done at the organ level, e.g. kidneys that could adapt more quickly (but still over millions of years), and adjust blood salinity by the minute.

[StregaModerator]

Hi @trexdgr I hope you’re feeling a ton better.

The Jesus character gets everywhere when you least expect it. My (atheist) mum passed away earlier this year and my (atheist) brother went to view the body with his (lapsed-ish catholic) wife. Not for me, I prefer my memories to be of her living, but I understand it’s of help to some. His wife told me with some cheer, that there was a huge painting of Jesus in the room where she was laid out, and that she thought it was “rather comforting”.

I told her I found it rather offensive, as the area of London where she lived was very multi-ethnic, and that it was immensely presumptuous for the funeral parlor to decide Christianity should adorn the wall. What if they were Jewish corpses. Hindu ones, Sikhs, etc. etc. She reluctantly agreed with me, although I suppose I might have rained on her parade a bit with hindsight.

My most incongruous encounter with the mythical blue-eyed Jesus character left me creased up laughing. We were on the road from Vermont, headed to Boston on the Mass pike, and hit a traffic hitch. We pulled off the road to a small service station, and I went to use the unisex rest room. So tiny that you had to open the door fully in order to squeeze in and close it behind you before you could sit down.

Imagine my delight when I closed the door and took the throne, to discover a monumentally huge painting of the blue-eyed man on the inside of the door. Jesus watches people pee, all day long! Fantastic!

[UnseenParticipant]

trexdgr wrote:

this particular hospital is privately operated and is very up front about their Evangelical Christian position.

And yet, most religious hospitals hire their staff for their skills and have no religious belief requirement. I’ve been to Good Samaritan and St. Vincent’s hospitals here locally and aside from a cleric dropping by to ask me if I’d like to pray with him when I did an overnighter (“No, thank you”) there’s never been a hint of religion or that religion would be allowed to overrule a medical decision. They hire doctors whose native countries might be India, Pakistan, Poland, or Brazil, and it’s the same for nurses.

trexdgr wrote:

while laying there I started wondering if the people who operate this particular institution could have explained to me why their supposedly omnipotent God saw fit to make man with organs unable to utilize fresh water but unable to survive by consuming salt water

This is somewhat confusing. Our organs can use fresh water. After all, we drink fresh water and would die without consuming it, so it is quite useful to our organs. Our body simply mixes in salt derived from our solid foods to bring the salinity up to the necessary level.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by  Unseen.

[PopeBeanieModerator]

I’ve been to Good Samaritan and St. Vincent’s hospitals here locally and aside from a cleric dropping by to ask me if I’d like to pray with him when I did an overnighter (“No, thank you”) there’s never been a hint of religion or that religion would be allowed to overrule a medical decision.

I had an instructor, ex-nurse, who openly spoke of God’s love, and said it motivates him. He spoke of an unconscious patient who was normally in great pain, and very, very unlikely to survive much longer. The patient stopped breathing, and he decided at that moment to leave things “in the hands of God”. No resuscitation was attempted. The patient died.

No one in class asked if there were any other witnesses to this event, nor did I ask. At that moment, hearing the medical details, I felt he behaved the same way I probably would have. In fact, I wonder sometimes if I’ll ever try to use “reasoning” with a theist like “are you sure you want to keep this body alive, or would you rather let God take over?”. (I imagine there may never be such a circumstance where it would be ethical for me to say that, or worth the risk.)

This is somewhat confusing. Our organs can use fresh water.

Yeah, I assumed some kind of typo there, somewhere. In fact, to clear up another myth that’s out there, it is never a good idea to drink seawater to hydrate. Perhaps a handful of seawater a day can add essential minerals, but any more than that will cause further, unnecessary dehydration.

[trexdgrParticipant]

Strega wrote:

I hope you’re feeling a ton better.

Yes I am, thank you. Once I was re-hydrated my blood pressure returned to normal and I felt much better.

Unseen wrote:

most religious hospitals hire their staff for their skills and have no religious belief requirement

I did not mean to imply that the staff was particularly religious. In fact, I would be very surprised if it would be possible to staff a modern hospital completely with any specific religious requirement. The staff I came in contact with were all very professional and understanding. Other than being asked if I had any religious preference, there was no discussion of religion.

Thank you all for schooling me on fresh vs. salt water requirements in the human body. I admit this started as one of those random thoughts that just popped into my head while I was lying in my hospital bed and I just ran with it. Probably I didn’t think it through as well as I should of. Since I’m relatively new here, I hope you’ll forgive me and I will do better next time.

[StregaModerator]

@trexdgr you’re fine! It took me forever to pluck up the courage to make my first post, and you’ve started a whole topic! The people who also get to read the information about saline water levels, are the ‘ghosts’ of AZ – the people who read but don’t post. *waves*

• This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by  Strega.

[trexdgrParticipant]

So, over 2 years after I posted this, I got an e-mail today from a creationist, John Phillip, trolling me for my mistake about salinity (which Pope Beanie already corrected me on) and my apparent inability to take care of myself. Oh, and of course threatening me with “God’s Judgment.” Since I can’t find his reply here, I’m assuming he’s ok attacking me privately, but afraid of being ganged up by the evil atheists.  I’m going to respond to him and ask him if he’d like to support his position about evolution, but I’ll only continue the discussion here. My original post was public and all replies should be so as well.

[StregaModerator]

He can’t, @trexdgr he’s in the sin bin and won’t be back.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by  Strega.

[trexdgrParticipant]

Oh well.

 

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