IT'S NOT JUST SOYLENT GREEN THAT'S PEOPLE NOW

[UnseenParticipant]

@ Robert

And you believe him, I guess.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Thanks for that link Robert. Funny guy.

It is like the mob. Pay your protection or get a dead fish at your door.

[UnseenParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

Furthermore the notion that we are FREE to exercise the religion of our CHOICE is misleading at best.

The fact that people tend to believe and practice the religion they grow up with certainly fits into the notion that there are causes driving everything we do, including when we decide to shrug off those same beliefs. If you make a decision, there are causes—many of them below consciousness and some of them in neurophysiology—making those choices happen.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

including when we decide to shrug off those same beliefs.

Some random thoughts……We should consider our beliefs from a different perspective. They are not our possessions that we can just shrug off or pick up and cherish. Beliefs are a process. Believing in something is an ongoing process and not a finished product. They have an emotional impact on us, especially when they are challenged by people who we suspect of holding different beliefs to us. These beliefs are often at the very foundations of our worldview. In order to challenge anyone else’s beliefs, we must first reach a place of mutual respect. Otherwise, it is tribal and a case of Them vs Us where we can engage in questioning them. People come to belief something and then rationalize that they made a conscious decision to believe it. When we challenge someone’s belief, we should do so in a way that compels them to reconsider it for themselves. It is not a competition. I am just trying to plant a seed of doubt and let them do the work over time. Then the process of their belief is interrupted and it may turn in a different direction. Whichever way it turns, you will have helped them to change their mind even if they rationalize it as their own decision.

But we do not need to respect the belief itself. You have rights but your beliefs do not (an Atheist Ireland tenet).  I once debated a Muslim apologist on the question “Atheism or Islam”. He is the Muslim version of WL Craig. I gave a short reply at the very start – “Oh that’s an easy one, Atheism, of course”. His reply was to ask me if I had a problem with Muslims as I did not appear to want to have a serious debate with him. I said “When you figure out what is wrong with your proposition, I will be happy to debate anything”. I went on to explain to him that Atheism is not the opposite of Islam and that neither is a choice, but he could not grasp that point. Fortunately, there was someone behind me ready to take over when he mentioned Evolution 😊

It often seems to me that the made up ‘crime’ of Islamophobia is seen by non-atheists as the fear or hatred of Muslims. Maybe I will launch a campaign of oxymoronophobia.

[UnseenParticipant]

@ Reg

Beliefs a process? or a response?

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Beliefs and doubts are the results of information (stimuli) that the brain processes. Much of this process is done subconsciously and the result – or the emergent sensation of this process – is what we agree or disagree with. But it does not become like a printed book that cannot change. It is regularly receiving new information that we can interrogate and then use to change the confidence level up or down. That is how our beliefs can change over time.

Most Freethinkers are open to changing their beliefs, based upon a willingness to be open minded to new stimuli. We use reasoning and logic to adapt our confidence level in a belief. Let’s get Bayesian about it!! We will follow the evidence and evolve accordingly. We are happy to debate openly about the information even if the debate compels us to change our own minds.

But for many their emotions and identities are so wrapped up in their beliefs that they will actively, but subconsciously, cover their eyes and ears when new information is landing. They will not allow it to clear customs, never mind stay in arrivals to meet it.  It’s off to the confirmation bias lounge to down some group think for me!! Yeah, everyone is wearing the same hat in here as we all agree with each other. I know I ain’t woke but I do enjoy this safe space. Red hats good, no hats bad.

 

[_Robert_Participant]

Unseen wrote:

@ Robert And you believe him, I guess.

I think he understands his religion and all of the violence it has encouraged over the centuries.

Surah 3:151: “We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (all non-Muslims) …” Surah 2:191: “And kill them (non-Muslims) wherever you find them … kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers (non-Muslims) Jews and Christians will be in the fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures – Quran 98:6 Surah 9:5: “Then kill the disbelievers (non-Muslims) wherever you find them, capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush …” Jews & Christians, believe in Islam before We destroy your faces & twist them toward their backs & curse you – Quran 4:47 Those who disbelieve in Islam, We will drive you into a fire & roast your skins over & over – Quran 4:56 Those who resist Islam – Kill them, crucify them. Cut off their hands & feet from opposite sides – Quran 5:33 For the thief, the male & the female cut off their hands – Quran 5:38 Allah turned the Jews into apes and pigs – Quran 5:60 What is the matter with you that you do not fight Jihad in the cause of Allah? – Quran 4:75 Disbelievers worship Satan. So Muslims! fight against the disbelievers – Quran 4:76 Non-Muslims wish you would disbelieve like them. Do not be their friend until they emigrate for the cause of Islam. But if they turn away, seize them & kill them wherever you find them – Quran 4:89 And kill the unbelievers wherever you overtake them. Fitnah is worse than killing – Quran 2:191 Fight them until there is no more disbelieving of Islam & until all worship is for Allah alone – Quran 2:193 Fighting Jihad warfare has been ordered upon you. Perhaps you hate it, but its good for you – Quran 2:216 Those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment – Quran 3:4 Muslims! Do not take non-Muslims as friends – Quran 3:28 You will not enter Paradise before Allah tests those who fought Jihad in His Cause – Quran 3:142 We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve – Quran 3:151 If you are killed in Jihad in the cause of Allah it is better than anything else in this world – Quran 3:157 Never think of Jihadists who have been killed as dead. They are alive in paradise – Quran 3:169 Jihadi Martyrs receive good rewards and favour from Allah – Quran 3:171 Women who have unlawful sex. Lock the guilty women in their houses until they die – Quran 4:15 Men are in charge of women. Those wives from whom you fear arrogance – Advise them, forsake them in bed, Finally, beat them – Quran 4:34 Allah prefers those who fight Jihad in the Cause of Allah with their lives above those who sit at home – Quran 4:95 The disbelievers of Islam are ever to you a clear enemy – Quran 4:101 And the worldly life is not but amusement; but the home of the Hereafter is best for those who fear Allah. Quran 6:32 We destroyed many cities, Our terror came to them at night & while they were sleeping – Quran 7:4 The homosexuals, We rained upon them a rain of stones. Then see how the end of the criminals – Quran 7:84 Non-Muslims are comparable to dogs – Quran 7:176 Those who deny Our Quran – We will lead them to destruction from where they do not know – Quran 7:182 Terrorise & behead those who do not believe in Islam & strike off their fingertips – Quran 8:12 We will behead those who have wronged and others, know that Allah is severe in penalty – Quran 8:25 Keep Fighting the disbelievers until there is no more disbelief in Islam – Quran 8:39 The worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are non-Muslims – Quran 8:55 When you capture the unbelievers, punish them severely to deter the rest – Quran 8:57 Prophet Mohammed! To keep prisoners of war you must inflict a great massacre – Quran 8:67 Those who emigrate to an Islamic State & fight Jihad will go to paradise – Quran 8:74 And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the unbelievers – Quran 9:5 Fight unbelievers. Fight them until they give the jizyah Muslim Tax – Quran 9:29 Jews and Christians are perverts, may Allah destroy them – Quran 9:30 Praise the Muhajireen fighters – Quran 9:100 Allah has purchased from the believers their lives & their properties in exchange for paradise – Quran 9:111 Muslims! Fight those disbelievers next to you and be harsh! – Quran 9:123 Jihadists the enemy won’t kill you, only Allah can do that – Quran 9:151 To disbelievers – Should we force Islam upon you? Against your will? – Quran 11:28 Whichever Muslim leaves Islam, upon you is wrath from Allah, and for you a great punishment – Quran 16:106 For those who disbelieve in Islam, garments of fire, boiling water will be poured over their heads – Quran 22:19 We will melt your skin and burn your stomach. And hooked rods of iron to punish you – Quran 22:20 O Muslims, abstain from sex, except with your wives & slave girls. Sex with them is lawful – Quran 23:6 Adulterers – lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, & take no pity for them in the religion of Allah. Let a group of the believers witness their punishment – Quran 24:2 Muslims you may enter houses not inhabited, and take goods that you need – Quran 24:29 And do not compel your slave girls to prostitution – Quran 24:33 Do not obey the unbelievers but launch a great campaign against them with the help of the Quran – Quran 25:52 And this worldly life is not only a diversion and amusement, but paradise is also the real-life – Quran 29:64 Allah cast terror in the hearts of the Jews and Christians – Quran 33:26 Accursed, wherever found, they shall be seized and killed with a (terrible) slaughter – Quran 33:61 And if We willed, We could have deformed them, [paralyzing them] into lifeless objects, in their places so they would not be able to proceed, nor could they return (As it happened with the Jews see Verse 7:166) – Quran 36:67 Those who worshipped other than Allah, guide them to the path of Hellfire – Quran 37:23 Indeed, that is how We deal with the criminals – Quran 37:34 Indeed, you disbelievers of Islam will be tasters of the painful punishment – Quran 37:38 Those who deny the Quran, When the shackles are around their necks & chains; they will be dragged In boiling water; then in the Fire they will be burned – Quran 40:70 Those who disbelieve in Islam, strike off their heads. Take them as captives. The command of Allah – Quran 47:4 Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the disbelievers till they embrace Islam or at least come under your protection. If it had been Allah’s Will, He could certainly have punished them (without you). But he lets you fight, to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost. – Quran 47:4

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Christianity is no longer as violent as the Religion of Peace often is now but it actively did it’s God work in the past.

[_Robert_Participant]

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

Christianity is no longer as violent as the Religion of Peace often is now but it actively did it’s God work in the past.

Yes, with Christians much of the violence was between their own sects and nations. Jesus’s story is not that of a conquering warlord/pedophile. Christianity doesn’t directly call the for killing non-believers, adherents of other religions or ex-practitioners.

Big-picture: It doesn’t really matter what they preach. The harm of all religion is the same cult-like preconditioning to fall for self-harming nonsense. Be it fascism, communism, authoritarianism. A talking snake, the walking dead, the winged horse, the micro-chipped vaccines. It’s all the same.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Robert,

Let ’em try imposing the Jizya on a people whose lawn boys, pool boys, restaurant servers, jitney cab drivers, not to mention millions of illegal aliens, are all paid under the table.

Let ’em try this on a nation with accounting and asset protection industries devoted to finding ways to get out of taxation.

Let ’em try this on a people who drank as a matter of principle during Prohibition and today smoke weed as a matter of principle during the ongoing “War On (Some) Drugs.”

And, above all, let ’em try this on a people with more guns than people.

Fun will now commence! 😁🗽🇺🇲

[_Robert_Participant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Robert, Let ’em try imposing the Jizya on a people whose lawn boys, pool boys, restaurant servers, jitney cab drivers, not to mention millions of illegal aliens, are all paid under the table. Let ’em try this on a nation with accounting and asset protection industries devoted to finding ways to get out of taxation. Let ’em try this on a people who drank as a matter of principle during Prohibition and today smoke weed as a matter of principle during the ongoing “War On (Some) Drugs.” And, above all, let ’em try this on a people with more guns than people. Fun will now commence! 😁🗽

America and China are highly resistive to Islamic cultural incursion for very different reasons. India as well, given the issues with revolting Muslims and Pakistan right next door.  Africa and Europe are a different matter as Islamic immigrants begin demanding their Sharia bullshit in their new homelands. Large areas of London-stan bear little resemblance to the mother country. There is no intention to assimilate as that is intolerable to Islam. The Islamic practice of beheading occurring in broad daylight.

The Islamic nations have pretty much persecuted, evicted or exterminated the majority of Christians, Jews and any other people not practicing Islam, such the ancient pre-Islamic Persian religions.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Pig Pile on Islam!

Like i have said were it a tiny discrete cult of 600 members in a little enclave and there were no Islam and this little cult was identical to hard core Muslims the sentiment would be holy fuck, people who are mind fucked by that cult are victims. We gotta help those poor bastards. And we gotta do what we can to keep them from operating or preying on weak and alienated individuals.

And yet we have a whole shit load of progressives who protect Islam.

[UnseenParticipant]

YOU (I think you know who you are) may be islamophobic and not even know it. Or you may know you’re islamophobic and believe your phobia is justified. (Just because you’re paranoid, it doesn’t follow that your paranoia isn’t about something real.)

[UnseenParticipant]

_Robert_ wrote:

The Islamic practice of beheading occurring in broad daylight.

Yeah, I’m sure it’s a daily occurrence there in Limeyland. Meanwhile, here in the First World’s capital of mass murders, a MAGA Republican beheaded his daddy right here in ‘Merika recently for failing to show obeisance to The Orange One.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Islamophobia as a shield against criticism is some BS.

Now for something many will never realize. Characterizing Islamic terrorists/jihadists as EXTEMISTS is some BS.
True, they’re extreme in relation to the rank and file Muslim. However, submission to authority and the sleep of reason is the real culprit for so called extemism which is a NATURAL outgrowth of the former. Having interacted on social media with Muslims it is like i am talking to a robotic and despotic brain-dead thing. And the brain dead will FOLLOW. Islam knocks the bejesus out of individuality. Sam Harris was talking on one of his podcasts about how we secular westerners just do not realize how convinced of paradise hard core Muslims are. In one of the wars between Iraq and i forget whom children were used to clear mines for tanks. Arm and arm in the thousands they went to their death. Made me think of the children’s crusade and how little we have as a species advanced.

[Author]

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