MIG-TOW. Have you heard about it?

[UnseenParticipant]

HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT MIG-TOW?

Whatever happened to simple dating? Well, the days when it was simple are over, and it has nothing to do with porn, despite what the prudes will say.

It’s exemplified by a trend nicknamed “mig-tow” which stands for MGTOW which itself stands for Men Going Their Own Way. It’s about a trend of men not wanting to get involved with women. By that, I mean not wanting to get into long-term committed relationships mostly, though for some men it means a life more or less without women or with little more than “no strings” sex.

These men can have female companionship if they want it, but without the sexual involvement.

In the following video, you’ll hear women complaining about MGTOW, most of them either baffled or blaming it on men and few of them blaming women and women’s issues as at least part of the problem. Pay attention to the facial expressions and occasional comments by the guy in the lower right corner.

The women in this video are in a way the flip side of the “incel” (involuntarily celibate) movement of men who resent that women won’t date them. Many of them are short or nerdy or not not perfect physical specimens and feel left behind by the women of the world. Many of them also feel entitled, that somehow they deserve to have women paying attention to them, that women owe them theat.

See what I mean about the flip side?

It’s good that women have become more empowered but in some ways it has become a problem because it has raised women’s expectations unreasonably. There’s now a sense of entitlement meaning that too many women want a man that checks off all the boxes: He’s 6 feet tall or at least 5’10” and really good-looking with a nice body, he has whatever she thinks is a high income, he drives a nice car, he opens doors and takes her to nice places, he’s handy with cars and around the house. And they feel they are entitled to nothing less.

So, you have many women finding that their field of available (in their view) men is a vast and mostly empty wasteland. So, the go on Tinder and discover that the men there do not meet their standards. They go to those dating meet-ups where they go from table to table sizing up men for brief periods and find that almmost none of the men there meet their high standards. They go to well-known “meat market” bars and no men hit on them or the ones that do also don’t meet their high standards.

Because they feel entitled, they feel it’s okay to brush off any men that clearly don’t meet their standards rather rudely. A guy hitting on a girl nowadays may not get a simple brush off indicating she’s not interested, just out with friends, or whatever. Instead, she may feel it’s okay to send him off with an insult. Perhaps after being told to just “go away,” as he leaves he hears her say under her breath “creep!”

And the legal empowerment women have achieved hasn’t helped, either. The #MeToo movement has made it easier for women to turn a misunderstood approach into a seeming misdeed or even a false claim that could ruin his life. I’m not saying #MeToo is a bad thing, but every step forward has consequences attached to it.

The courts have for a long time favored women in custody and child support disputes as well as alimony cases.

A few months ago, my daughter told me that one of her adult boys had moved in with a girlfriend. It came out that this girl has a child, and I asked her if she had warned him that in today’s legal climate, it can happen that a live-in boyfriend of a single mom can end up with child support payments when/if they break it off. It happens, and it’s especially likely if the breakup is, shall we say, untidy.

Patently unfair, but the courts are more concerned with making sure children get adequate support than the justness of who pays. I can’t argue with that intent, but it’s a reality smart guys have to keep in mind. So if single moms are finding it especially hard to find men to date, there you go.

Feminism is a good thing, but it got distorted along the way and has made it harder for women and men to connect. It’s created a minefield that many men have decided not to navigate.

Many young men have decided not to marry. Tied with the fact that many women, concerned with achieving financial success, have decided to postpone having children or even having them at all, and we can add to the rest of the country’s problems, a looming demographic problem of Americans getting older and the pool of working people to contribute to Social Security slowly drying up.

Folks, things ain’t looking good.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

I listened to the wish list between 4.00 and 6.00 minutes and thought “Not a chance girl”, then I noticed the logo in the middle. Leave a message at the beep and you might get lucky 🙂

[_Robert_Participant]

The social change pendulum does not stop in the middle, unfortunately. The new phenomena is that somehow 75% of women believe they deserve the top 25% of guys.

[UnseenParticipant]

In the world of relationships, there is only one thing men need from women.

Sex. “Men give love in order to get sex. Women give sex in order to get love.”

And women have made themselves less lovable. They work hard on making themselves attractive. Makeup, sexy clothes, and many visits to the gym and they think they are entitled to attention. But feminism has taught them that being equal to men means being selective and assertive, two traits that conflict with being attractive to a man.

So, it’s not that men have given up sex. They’ve given up playing the game women want them to play. So the new name of the game goes in two basic directions: 1) you hang out with your friends, male and female, and sex consists of masturbating to porn and 2) getting cynical about sex by getting it while staying away from complications.

In the latter case, there are some general principles:

Don’t date single moms. Don’t date coworkers. Look for good looking chicks with low esteem. Don’t spend much money on a date ever. Never call a potential partner more than once per week. Only pick up the phone for a woman who is putting out. Let the rest go to voicemail and only return the call for those who put out. Sunday through Thursday are for dating prospects. Friday and Saturday are for getting laid with sure things.

If you’re dining out with a woman and she takes a cell phone call, excuse yourself to go to the men’s room, but leave her there. If she takes a call, it’s either the guy she’s planning on having sex with after you pay for her meal and drop her off…or it’s her babysitter, and you shouldn’t date single moms.

When you have sex, don’t have it at your place. Have it at hers. Get it and go. It’s best if she doesn’t even find out where you live or work so when you dump her it can be final.

Always go to a booty call with condoms and a small jar of Tabasco Sauce. Use the condom even if she says you don’t need to, because she may be trying to get pregnant. Then, if you can, take control of the used condom and take it with you or else put a little Tabasco Sauce into the condom before leaving it in her bathroom wastebasket. Tabasco Sauce kills sperm and punishes her if she tries to use the contents to try to get pregnant with your child.

All that stuff sounds like and is pretty cynical, but it’s realistic in today’s dating world.

This guy used to make a living out of practical dating for guys whose main goal is getting laid:

• This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  Unseen.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Unseen wrote:

This guy used to make a living out of practical dating for guys whose main goal is getting laid:

It seems like a very cynical point of view.  I don’t see how that guy will ever be happy – indoor shades or not.

[_Robert_Participant]

I used to meet girls that were friends of friends during fun activities like skating, bowling, fishing, concerts, or just hanging out at cool spots. I could use charm, my sense of humor, suddenly need to take off my shirt for some fake reason, pull a clever stunt or two.

Much better than a dating profile.

That scenario is all but dead today. Someone starring at their phone with headphones in their ears is unapproachable. A girl will get 1000s of “likes” on a dating app compared to dudes who might get a few. Women are misled into thinking they are in such high demand; so why settle for an average dude?

[UnseenParticipant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

It seems like a very cynical point of view.  I don’t see how that guy will ever be happy – indoor shades or not.

Beside the point. His situation is unique. We’re not talk show hosts, nor are we multimillionaires. We’re also not getting laid regularly in “no strings” relationships. He’s not much to look at and female callers would call in to point that out and he’d reply “It doesn’t matter. When you’re rich, you can get all the tail you want.” If he wants sex, he can always get a high end call girl to come by and satisfy his physical needs.

BTW, statistics do show that married people are happier than unmarried people. Unfortunately, it’s hard to find much meaning in those statistics because presumably married people are people who want to be married. The real question is about the unhappy unmarried people. Presumably many of them are people who want to be married but aren’t. More granular statistics breaking out the happiness of the unmarried people who don’t want to be married vs. those who wish they were would be helpful to understanding. If anyone can find those statistics, it’d be great. I can’t find them.

Some of us are loners. I found myself an uncomfortable fit in my marriage. As I often say, “I’m never more alone than when I’m with people.” My companion is a rather lovingly disagreeable tuxedo cat. She’s all I need.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Unseen wrote:

If anyone can find those statistics, it’d be great. I can’t find them.

Here are some studies on “dissatisfaction in marriage”, they might have the stats you’re looking for.  I think the picture is complex.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/299132494_What_Keeps_Dissatisfied_People_in_Marriage

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3889678/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8073503/

Unseen wrote:

he’d reply “It doesn’t matter. When you’re rich, you can get all the tail you want.” If he wants sex, he can always get a high end call girl to come by and satisfy his physical needs.

Pretty lonely guy.

[_Robert_Participant]

Sharing experiences with that right person is just always better, in my opinion. Having someone to lean on when you are challenged or vice-versa just brings you even closer and deeper. Both parties have to be at a certain emotional IQ level or it’s just not gonna work. I wasn’t ready for commitment in my 20s, 30s or early 40s even. Biologically speaking, the younger the better, this is unfortunate. Now we don’t even need to talk about “ourselves” much. We just know how to be there for each other.

[UnseenParticipant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

Pretty lonely guy.

You are making an unwarranted assumption there. Some people (I’m one) thrive on being alone. It’s when I’m with other people that I’m alone.

[UnseenParticipant]

_Robert_ wrote:

Sharing experiences with that right person is just always better, in my opinion. Having someone to lean on when you are challenged or vice-versa just brings you even closer and deeper. Both parties have to be at a certain emotional IQ level or it’s just not gonna work. I wasn’t ready for commitment in my 20s, 30s or early 40s even. Biologically speaking, the younger the better, this is unfortunate. Now we don’t even need to talk about “ourselves” much. We just know how to be there for each other.

I don’t know about “always.” But you did express it as an opinion. One can share experiences with a good friend.

I believe there are only three kinds of true love. The love of a (good) parent for their child and the love of a good friend. One needn’t share a bed or live under the same roof with them.

“True love” I define as wanting what’s best for the other person, even if it’s not what you’d want for yourself.

Example: A good parent or a good friend can urge you to take a job and move away because it’s what you need to thrive, even if it’s a sacrifice to express that urge.

• This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  Unseen.

[_Robert_Participant]

Unseen wrote:

_Robert_ wrote:

Sharing experiences with that right person is just always better, in my opinion. Having someone to lean on when you are challenged or vice-versa just brings you even closer and deeper. Both parties have to be at a certain emotional IQ level or it’s just not gonna work. I wasn’t ready for commitment in my 20s, 30s or early 40s even. Biologically speaking, the younger the better, this is unfortunate. Now we don’t even need to talk about “ourselves” much. We just know how to be there for each other.

I don’t know about “always.” But you did express it as an opinion. One can share experiences with a good friend. I believe there are only three kinds of true love. The love of a (good) parent for their child and the love of a good friend. One needn’t share a bed or live under the same roof with them. “True love” I define as wanting what’s best for the other person, even if it’s not what you’d want for yourself. Example: A good parent or a good friend can urge you to take a job and move away because it’s what you need to thrive, even if it’s a sacrifice to express that urge.

I also find that many of my friends that have been single and living alone for years get really rigid in their views and are easily irritated. Some have even become radicalized. There is no one to call them out on their bullshit.

One guy I worked with retired at 65. I figured he would drink himself to death in a year. He only lasted 7 months. Your pets might eat you before someone notices. Here in Florida, a giant morgue waiting room, there are companies that specialize in removing the smell of death from a house. Those “Life Alert” products also do a lot of business.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Some people (I’m one) thrive on being alone.

I deliberately live on my own. I enjoy my own company and it is never boring. Just today someone said to me that she would not be able to spend a weekend on her own. I thought to myself that I probably could not spend an entire weekend with someone like that. What is it about your own company that you dislike your own thoughts after a day alone? Learn to steer your own ship and you won’t need to commandeer someone else’s.

I have a few GF’s but do not want anyone living with me long-term. I have no problem with commitment but  I will be selling my current home very soon and will move into another house that I also own but will be renting 4 rooms out while living in separate quarters. I have noticed that some women I date will change their attitude towards me when they discover that I was never married and have no children, a decision I made over 40 years ago in my teens and have never regretted. “But you have a job with a good income, no kids, a house, a car and don’t drink alcohol !!” “Yes, I am the man who has everything :-)”.  But there are also some that could not care less so long as we are good company and have fun. We are there for each other when bad shit happens but also make the good days better for each other. We keep it all very simple and hassle free. I make no demands from anyone and no-one owes me anything. Well, something like that, I guess. And yes, a man and woman can be friends and neither wants sex with the other. There is no app for that relationship 🙂

[_Robert_Participant]

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

Some people (I’m one) thrive on being alone. I deliberately live on my own. I enjoy my own company and it is never boring. Just today someone said to me that she would not be able to spend a weekend on her own. I thought to myself that I probably could not spend an entire weekend with someone like that. What is it about your own company that you dislike your own thoughts after a day alone? Learn to steer your own ship and you won’t need to commandeer someone else’s. I have a few GF’s but do not want anyone living with me long-term. I have no problem with commitment but I will be selling my current home very soon and will move into another house that I also own but will be renting 4 rooms out while living in separate quarters. I have noticed that some women I date will change their attitude towards me when they discover that I was never married and have no children, a decision I made over 40 years ago in my teens and have never regretted. “But you have a job with a good income, no kids, a house, a car and don’t drink alcohol !!” “Yes, I am the man who has everything :-)”. But there are also some that could not care less so long as we are good company and have fun. We are there for each other when bad shit happens but also make the good days better for each other. We keep it all very simple and hassle free. I make no demands from anyone and no-one owes me anything. Well, something like that, I guess. And yes, a man and woman can be friends and neither wants sex with the other. There is no app for that relationship 🙂

If she can’t spend a weekend alone, yes RUN, LOL!

It took most of my life to find my mate. A blonde, sharp, very fit, surfer girl, RN into alternative music who happens to be an atheist and had a few of Hitch’s books in her bookcase crossed my path. Statistically impossible, LOL. Neither of us were really on the hunt at the time. Maybe that’s why it happened.

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