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This topic contains 23 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Noel 7 years, 7 months ago.
August 3, 2015 at 8:36 am #2068
I can’t sleep. I need to write about something that happened today. I am confused and generally just…I need to get some perspective. I am posting this in “La Zona” because it has to do with the Mexican culture, in many ways…but I’m writing it in English because not many people will understand it in Spanish, and I do hope to get a few different perspectives on the issue…Particularly from Cesar if you are there…you’re from a similar culture and may have some insights. Especially being male.
First before I tell the story of what happened, it’s important to know that I have been raped by a total of 7 Mexican men in my life. My own ex-husband is one of them. I am not at ALL saying that all Mexican men are the same. I know they are not. It just so happens that I’ve been in those situations. I’m starting with that information because I admit up front, based on my experiences I’m extremely timid and scared of Mexican men. I don’t trust them. At least not when it comes to being intimate. I can hang out with them and talk with them all day long at a party or something. But being alone etc…I’m cautious.
Last night was the Rousey vs. Correia fight. A fight I have been anticipating for a LONG time now….I’ve started to follow women’s MMA like CRAZY…it’s becoming kind of an addiction. Initially it was just because of my friend Holly Holm, but now I have become a HUGE Ronda Rousey fan for SOOOOO many reasons. She’s probably my favorite woman on the planet right now, to be honest with you. I took away many great things from reading her biography, and I really hope she is able to stay undefeated….until she fights Holly Holm of course, LOL!!!
So I knew this fight was coming up. I have been super excited about it. I invited a friend of mine to come. She is with another man, (another illegal Mexican…) you see we both got married to illegal Mexicans. We have a lot in common in that regard. The difference is that when I separated from my marriage I didn’t look for another man. She did, and it didn’t take her long to find someone. She told me last night that she is getting married to him in April. She asked me to be her bridesmaid. To be honest with you the more I’ve gotten to know him I really like him. He is an Atheist, and he’s very intelligent. Despite his lack of education and inability to speak English, (which is typical) as a man and a person he’s good in that regard. So I am genuinely happy for her.
Anyway…back to the story….so we made plans to go watch the fight at Buffalo Wild Wings. She asked me if they could invite this guy that she knows who “really wants to meet me.” She said his name is Jose…..sigh……I knew immediately she was going to invite some desperate for sex illegal Mexican looking for a “novia….” I rolled my eyes and said “sure.” I figured we would just all go out and have a good time.
She’s always trying to hook me up with people. She thinks I need a man by my side.
I was the first to arrive. The restaurant was packed. They didn’t allow reservations when I called the day before so I got there early to try to get a table. There were no tables and the waiting list was a mile long. But they weren’t opposed to us waiting and we could still see the fight for free…they were all on several screens. It was really a good venue to watch the fight….if only we had arrived like 4 hours earlier!!! LOL….anyway…so I was standing there waiting. My friend called me and said that she and her boyfriend/fiancé were on their way, but that Jose was going to arrive any minute. Just as I was talking to him, in walked an extremely handsome Mexican man…oh my god was he good looking….everything about him was attractive. I didn’t assume it was him, but something told me it might be. About 5 minutes later my friend calls me and I’m on the phone with her. He saw me and assumed I was the girl…somehow he knew. He walked straight up to me, looked at me with piercing eyes, and smiled. I gestured to shake his hand, (the formal hello between a man and a woman in this context socially in Mexico.)….
We started talking. There was definitely a chemistry there. He offered to get me a drink from the bar. Even though we were standing quite close to the entrance, we could still order drinks, and hang out in hopes for a table. So I stayed put in case they called out name and he went to go get me the water with lemon that I asked for…
My friend arrived about 20 minutes later. We were there, standing for several hours until the fight. It was insane. Next time I am going to plan much better, but those several hours standing around watching the fight were worth all 34 seconds of the Rousey fight. It was fucking awesome.
After the fight Jose wanted to go to a restaurant somewhere and spend more time together. I told him I couldn’t. I had to get home to my son. His dad didn’t take him this weekend and my mom was gracious enough to watch him until I got home, but my son needed me. So he asked me what time I would wake up in the morning. I didn’t know…I don’t plan on Sundays….
He called me the next day. He wanted to see me. I told him I was going to go to the park and play baseball with my son. I decided it wouldn’t be any harm if he came. But I tried to explain to him that I do not want my son to get any confusing messages. I told him that I am going to tell my son that he is a friend, and I didn’t want him acting in a way towards me or towards him like he is “in charge.” He told me that he felt like I was trying to tell him how to act, and to just relax and let things go….so…I guess I let it be and figured I was probably over-reacting a little. I was I thought pretty clear with him that I was open to hanging out as friends and nothing more. That I wanted to get to know him slowly. I told him this in several different ways both at the bar and the next day. I felt like I was being very forthcoming and honest in everything I was saying…..
When we arrived at the park the very first thing he did was give my son candy. In the Mexican culture, candy is really common. I don’t every buy my son candy, but I understood that he was just trying to be nice. It was thoughtful….but it sort of went against what I was trying to express when I said I didn’t want him being too…..I don’t know….strong and involved with my son in that way….I don’t have the words right now in English to translate how I expressed it in Spanish….but I think you can get the idea.
We had a great time at the park. Good time playing baseball. Good time talking. He got along great with my son and my son liked him. He told me my son was really well behaved, not like a lot of kids. He complimented me….he did everything right….
He did tell me that he had been involved in the Mexican Mafia….and I immediately thought to myself, “goddamn motherfucker, why do I always end up with the worst of the worst?”….then I thought….OK…..give him the benefit of the doubt. He’s in construction now. Maybe that was years ago….people can change….I’ve changed….we’re having a good time….just let it go…so I didn’t let it phase me at that moment.
Then came time for us to go….As we were walking towards the car he put a piece of gum in his mouth. At the time I didn’t actually think anything of it but now in hindsight I know it was calculated on his part what he was planning. When I got to my car, I put my son in his seat and then got in the car and rolled down the window. I was planning on leaving…..I gestured for him to come to me, but he had his body resting on the pack of my car and he didn’t respond to me when I said to come there….I thought perhaps he didn’t hear me so I rolled down the window, with the air conditioning on full blast and got out of the car, making sure the car was unlocked etc…
So my son is in his seat and me and Jose are outside my car. Before I knew it he grabbed my hand and physically pulled me back to where my son couldn’t see me. I resisted immediately held back. He said, “I’m not going to let you go until you give me a hug.” He physically put his hands around me, moved me to the back of the car, pushed my body against the back of the car, started kissing me and I immediately resisted. I did not reciprocate. In order to not cause a scene he let go after about 5 seconds, but if anyone had been watching it would have been obvious that it was not a welcome kiss, nor the way he was grabbing me. He tried a second time and I resisted again. This time he whispered in my ear, “I want you.”
At this point my son was calling for me. He let go of me and I said I had to go. After I left he called me and said that he wanted to talk about “us.” He wanted to take things to another level with me and be more than friends. And he make it very clear that he wanted to be with me sexually. I explained to him that I am not ready for that. He told me that he was not in agreement with how I am not allowing the chemistry between us to just “be”…he told me to think about that for a while…I did. I thought about it a LOT. I thought that maybe he’s right. Maybe I’m just too….scared to let things happen. But on the other hand, I’ve learned a LOT from my therapy and one of the big red flags is when a man wants to take things super-fast and go straight to sex. That was what he was doing. He also overstepped his boundaries with my son and did things I had asked him not to do. He also had come on to me sexually when I had made it PAINSTAKINGLY clear that I did NOT want to go there…I thought about a lot of the little details of things that happened. I thought about everything and realized what was going on….at least what I think was going on.
Later on he texted me and asked me if I had thought about what he asked. I responded that yes I did and that I think he doesn’t have a conscious, and that he’s dangerous, that I don’t trust being alone with him and that I believe he’s just trying to get me to have sex with him, and that despite me feeling attraction towards him, it’s all lies….
He responded by saying, “let time do the telling. Is that OK with you?”….I responded…OK.
So….I left the door slightly open just in case I’m totally wrong. You have to understand, I’ve been thought a lot and I’m terrified of being raped. I’m terrified of….everything…but I’m trying to live my life. I’m trying to understand….maybe I am too up tight. Maybe I am letting my past experiences keep me from intimacy. Maybe I am too worried about being raped…because the last time I let a man into my life as a friend, he turned out to be psycho and almost ruined my life…and the last time I got involved with an illegal Mexican he used me for a green card. And every time I’ve gotten involved with a Mexican man he has never respected me sexually. Everything in my body is telling me to run the opposite direction from this. But I really want to understand what happened. Is what happened normal? Is the way he treated me at the car…is that just how men are? Did I over react? I saw a flash of danger in his eyes when he kissed me. There was a moment that I thought to myself, “If we were alone in a room he would rape me.”…but is that just my past talking? I’m confused and….just trying to heal. Just trying to know if my extremely long list of sexual abuses has totally closed me off to intimacy, or if I am spot on in my analysis of what has happened here….
Did he overstep the line? Or am I just too…..scared to let someone be good to me?August 3, 2015 at 10:11 am #2077
He overstepped the line, Belle. He totally disrespected you by grabbing you and trying to kiss you, whether or not (and especially as) your son was in the car. He is not a gentleman. I would never treat a woman like that. Not so much alarm bells, as air-raid sirens. He’s got “charming evil guy” written all over him.
August 3, 2015 at 10:56 am #2079
- This reply was modified 7 years, 8 months ago by Simon Paynton.
First…it really sucks that you had a bad experience here. Not cool. Douchey guy to say the least.
I have to say there are numerous red flags that perhaps in hindsight seem obvious…but perhaps not in the moment. As I am reading this the red flags absolute jump out.
Number 1: He told me that he felt like I was trying to tell him how to act, and to just relax and let things go….so…I guess I let it be and figured I was probably over-reacting a little.
If he doesn’t listen to you and respect very reasonable boundaries…on what is merely the second date…it is only likely to go downhill from there. This might have been a good time to say…respect these boundaries or we can meet some other time without my son around (or better….respect these boundaries or good-bye).
Next red flag…Mexican-Mafia. Yikes. Call me prejudice but uffff…red flag if red flags ever existed.
Next red flag…groping you like he did despite telling him clearly not to do it in front of your son. If either of the previous red flags were not enough (though it would be very reasonable to ditch this guy for either of them) this is the ultimate straw. You have no reason to continue any further contact with him especially after violating your boundaries several times (on only the second date).
What comes next just makes the guy seem even more slimey and douchey.
I don’t know all of the details so I cannot say this for certain, but it wouldn’t be a bad idea to tell him you are not interested in meeting again and cut off all contact…tell your friend what happened and make it clear you do not want to see him again.
You deserve a lot better than this, and you are, like too many caring sensitive people, letting things go and giving the benifit of the doubt far more than most people would…despite rather notable red flags.
You deserve someone who respects your boundaries, listens to you, does not ignore or brush off important things you tell him and someone who shows common respect and decency around your son. Some may think this is too much to ask…but in reality…it is the absolute minimum to expect and demand. You owe this douche-bag nothing and without a doubt someone who respects you and treats you kindly will appear. It would also be a good idea not to let this friend hook you up again.August 3, 2015 at 11:23 am #2082
I second what @davis said. The guy went against your express wishes, and therefore didn’t treat you like a human being.August 3, 2015 at 4:36 pm #2092
Thank you everyone…I am going to cut off all contact with him and never let my friend try to Hook me up again. Her opinion of a “good man” is obviously still way off base.August 3, 2015 at 6:16 pm #2093
Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator
Just a minor point. You may feel like you owe this guy some sort of explanation for not wanting to see him again. You don’t. You owe him nothing. Do not waste any time or energy trying to draft what you should say to him. He has issues respecting women.August 3, 2015 at 6:21 pm #2094
@bellerose. Reg is completely correct. The man ceased to deserve to be treated like a person when he disrespected you. And please be aware of people who are here illegally as they may be looking for someone to get that legitimacy via marriage. If you have his number in your cellphone, block it – or change his name to ‘Do not answer’ as a friend of mine did with his ex wife :).
Start practicing respecting yourself.August 3, 2015 at 7:40 pm #2097
RE: Start practicing respecting yourself.
I am….Everything I did was trying to respect myself. This is all very new to me in having interactions with men again. I am not very good yet but I’m moving through this whole thing slowly and at least open to the possibility of this sort of thing. A year or even 6 months ago that was never the case. I was too afraid.
I may not be too good at this yet but I’m proud of the fact that I dodged a bullet. What’s scary is that I still gave him too much leeway, like Davis was saying….I should have stopped it a long time ago. I suppose I still have work to do. It’s a good reminder why I am not going to be alone with a man for a very very very very long time….August 3, 2015 at 8:33 pm #2104
I haven’t read replies yet, so I’m not influenced by them.
He told me that he felt like I was trying to tell him how to act, and to just relax and let things go…
That was a sign, from the very beginning. I was hoping it wouldn’t get worse, but was surprised how bad it got after that.
He responded by saying, “let time do the telling. Is that OK with you?”….I responded…OK.
By the time I got this far into the story, I was thinking I wouldn’t have blamed you if you used martial arts to knock him out when your son was in the car. I don’t want to assume too much about this guy either, but I’m sorry, “OK” was a weak response. If I were you, I’d cut it off right now, no further conversation, unless you’re willing to take even more risk. IMO, the only way he should learn more about you is from your friends, and you should let your friends know you’ve made it CLEAR to him to lay off. I wouldn’t even discuss whether or not you’ll give him another chance. If ANY act by him attracts you more to him, I hope it’s more subtle, and not a result of his “loss of control” or further disregard and disrespect of your CLEAR requests. You’re not just protecting yourself, but also your son, and perhaps even future women (if you can stay on top of this).August 3, 2015 at 8:52 pm #2107
I don’t remember reading that Jose is illegal, but it would increase the risk factor if that’s the case. He might be so sure of himself that “conquering” you could just be something he feels he deserves, to maintain a lifestyle he wants. If he’s been hesitant at all to you about confiding his past, there’s even more to it than what he’s told you so far.August 3, 2015 at 8:54 pm #2108
Thanks @popebeanie I honestly have decided to have no further contact with him. After all the responses I’ve gotten I can see that I really should have never met with him at the park to begin with when he didn’t respect what I laid out as a boundary to my son…that is where it should have stopped.
I am not making the same mistake again. The last time I was in this position and let “little” stuff slide long enough I ended up with a stalker at my door and was in a very scary situation for several months. I’m never ever ever ever over my dead body going there again.
I just haven’t quite figured out the exact science of giving a person a chance without judging them too harshly and staying safe. I thought I was safe in a public space, but what happened wasn’t safe.August 4, 2015 at 1:28 am #2117
@popebeanie – I realize that for everyone, the idea of getting involved with an illegal Mexican is a no brainer bad idea…the thing is I guess it’s one of those things that I’ve grown accustomed to. My son’s father was an illegal Mexican when I met him and now (because of me) he is 1 year away from being eligible to become a US Citizen. Yes he totally used me for his papers, but I like to think we actually had something real at one point.
Because I was married to him, I understand the world of immigration on an entirely different level than most people. I don’t have the desire to be with an illegal Mexican. I am not however opposed to becoming friends with them. I had hoped that this man would have been a friend. I made it clear and said so in many different ways throughout our conversations that that is all I wanted. It’s nice to have a man around, if nothing else just to share good company. And honestly, it’s nice to have a man play sports with my son. I do the best I can but I can never be a substitute for the male interaction that takes place. While he does some of that with his dad, his dad is partially disabled and lives in chronic pain. He doesn’t always have the stamina to be there for him the way he would like to be. It’s not his fault. I know that his dad would do that if he could…I have no doubt.
There are a lot of great qualities that his dad brings into his life. That is why I try so hard to maintain a great relationship with his dad as a co-parent. But it would be nice to have some male friends around. It’s also nice to have men speak Spanish to my son. It teaches him how to survive and feel comfortable in that environment. My son needs to learn to live within both worlds comfortably.
My other post titled “entre dos mundos” – between two worlds is about that very struggle. Being not quite within the boundaries of either culture. A little bit too much outside to be fully accepted in either of them. It’s my job to teach my son what it means to be a man who can thrive in both American culture and Mexican culture. My son will be a dual citizen in Mexico. He may desire to go study there some day. Who knows…the sky is the limit and I impose no limits on him.
All of this being said, I’m just trying to explain my own logic and why it’s not outside of the realm of normalcy for me to interact with illegal Mexicans, male or female. It doesn’t matter and I’m not uncomfortable with that. What I am struggling with is the fact that I’ve never EVER met a Mexican man who knows how to respect boundaries. Honestly…This is why I’m really hoping that
(why isn’t the “mention” hyperlink thingy working here???)
will see this and weigh in on their experiences as men from somewhat similar cultures who understand the mentality. It is different. Men from Mexico in my experience do seem to take what they want and “no” is not really part of their vocabulary. The woman has “ni voz ni voto” – not a vote or a say….it’s something that i’m just not sure if it’s a mentality that is ONLY within the realm of the men I’ve dealt with or if it’s something deeper. While I do understand the culture, I am not FROM Mexico….so I don’t totally understand. Even though I was married to a Mexican, my ex-husband was very Mexican and he was just as Macho as every other man I’ve dealt with….so I’m trying to figure out if there is a way for women to actually BE friends with men, or if that’s just never going to happen. I may be hoping for something that’s just not possible. My own experiences point to say that Mexican men will try to sleep with you if you’re an American. It may not even be for a green card but just because they think American women are easy…that’s honestly what I think goes through their mind…but honestly I don’t know……………………
I hope my little rant there makes sense….August 4, 2015 at 11:21 am #2140
@Belle nonononono. Getting involved with an illegal mexican immigrant in itself is not a bad idea. I’m not sure anyone said that. However, he really ought to be someone who has his shit together (has lived in the same place for sometime, has stable work, hard-working and responsible etc) and is not desperately finding someone with an American passport to marry. All this information can be found out on a first date through the skillful asking of questions.August 4, 2015 at 12:59 pm #2148
@davis – we did talk about a lot at the UFC fight (the first meeting) and he did seem to have his shit together. Like most illegal immigrants, he has a stable job and works his ass off. He’s ambitious, and dedicated. Illegal Mexicans work harder than most Americans. Sorry but it’s true…at all the jobs Americans don’t want. why do you think we let them stay? Because they pick our crops, build our houses and clean our living quarters like modern day slaves. Most places are able to get a visa to the US a HELL of a lot easier than anywhere in Mexico. But they come here because they need to eat, we let them, and don’t say shit about it. Can you blame them?August 4, 2015 at 10:08 pm #2191
Sorry but it’s true…at all the jobs Americans don’t want.
I believe that’s true too, but it depresses wages to less than what Americans want to work for. Lower wages help business, so there is still some upside for Americans, and I’m a bit idealistically in favor of distributing some of our wealth to Mexico (and other labor from this hemisphere) if it’s this kind of economic win-win situation. I know about how harder than Americans most of them work. I don’t blame them, as they’re in need, and a healthier Mexico will be better for us, too.
It’s nice of you to want to give a helping hand to someone needier or more desperate than even our poor citizens. There is possible high upside to that. I’m not saying a relationship with the family can’t work, but still, an illegal has less predictable luck, and incurs higher risk.
I’m sorry, but I think you can find men who don’t display such overt machismo, disrespect, and “loss of control”. They are out there. You are insightful, brilliant, care about your son, and a fantastic mother, from what I see from here.
(I have to admit again my bias. I think that there is already too much machismo modeling even in American culture. But I’ll admit, I’m a bit baffled by how well adjusted those wolfpack guys seem to be, in spite of their earlier isolation!)
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