Short video with almost too much to think about

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This topic contains 98 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Simon Paynton 8 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #36675

    Davis
    Moderator

    Simon the first article clearly discusses psychopaths experiencing fear. The other article is 100 pages so I certainly didn’t read the whole things but I did read the only section that mentions fear (Limitations of Previous Research on the Common Core of Dark Traits) and in that section it discusses those with dark traits fearing repercussions. So…it seems that the very articles you have quoted disagree with your claim that they don’t experience fear.

    #36720

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    @davis – there’s a lot of confusion in the literature over what psychopathy is.  Some people confuse it with narcissism, some with antisocial personality disorder.  The Abigail Marsh article goes into how psychopaths don’t feel or recognise fear.

    This is from the first paper:

    Moreover, recent imaging studies indicate that psychopathic individuals display overactivation of (pre)frontal regions, which in turn, inhibits amygdala reactivity (Larson et al., 2013; Muller et al., 2003). Thus, it may be that psychopathic individuals rely on cognitive inputs (and potentially Theory of Mind processes) to perceive emotions, but have difficulties processing them, resulting in deficient emotional empathy.

    I don’t know where it says that psychopathic people feel fear: you can point it out if you like.

    #36721

    Davis
    Moderator

    Uhh…I don’t think we are reading the same articles Simon. The third one says nothing for or against psychopaths “experiencing fear”. It discusses their recognition of fear in others. The first two articles (the only ones I mentioned in the previous post) directly discuss psychopaths experiencing fear. So, the first two articles you cited directly refute your claim about psychopaths not experiencing fear (meaning according to two of the sources you cited yourself, you are wrong and should consider retracting that claim). The third article doesn’t mention psychopaths experiencing fear at all but discusses only recognising fear in others.

    • This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  Davis.
    #36723

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    the first two articles you cited directly refute your claim about psychopaths not experiencing fear

    I need a quote, otherwise I think it’s fake news.

    The amygdala is involved in responding to fear, so if it’s under-reactive, there’s less of a fear response.

    #36724

    Davis
    Moderator

    I need a quote, otherwise I think it’s fake news.

    Intellectual hypocrisy Simon. You cite a paper you’ve read that discusses fearlessness in psychopathy but doesn’t (which is fake news if anything is) and then expect me to prove why you’re wrong when you haven’t even proven why you are right? Jesus holy shit.

    Paper 1 Simon:

    “these patients showed impairment in the recognition and experience of fear.”

    Impairments, not an inability to experience fear. In other words impairment does not equal none Simon.

    Paper 2 Simon:

    “For example, one may be drawn to situations in which harm is inflicted upon others in order to benefit personally, without actually engaging in harmful behavior due to the fear of sanctions or reputational concerns”

    A clear reference to those with dark traits experiencing fear. Did you not read the article?

    Paper 3 Simon:

    “Supporting the possibility of a link between fundamental empathic processes and amygdala responses to fear is evidence that impaired fear recognition in psychopathic individuals results from amygdala dysfunction”

    The only time they mention psychopaths experiencing fear is in a passive form which suggests they do respond to fear at least in some way and at no point claiming they don’t experience fear. The entire article discusses their inability to recognise fear in other and says NOTHING about them not experiencing fear. Not recognising fear in others does not equal them being fearless That is your own dubious conclusion not supported by any evidence in any of these papers.

    ________________

    In The Clinical and Forensic Assessment of Psychopathy: A Practitioner’s GuideThis book,  the authors evaluate hasty claims from the 60s to 90s that psychopaths are fearless. They find errors in their conclusions, their limited study of the facets of fear and point to studies which do demonstrate fear.

    “Overall, empirical evidence seems to indicate psychopaths show attenuated fear and anxiety responses at least in some instances”.

    _________

    So Simon, if you still stand behind your claim that psychopaths don’t experience fear, please cite a source written in the last 20 years by psychologists in a scholarly paper that clearly states this (not a conclusion of your own).

    • This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  Davis.
    • This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  Davis.
    #36727

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    You’re right.  Impaired, lacking – I should have been more precise.  That’s why a spectrum model makes sense – the various traits show up in different degrees in different individuals.

    Psychopathy is defined as one of the dark traits.  It’s not the only one.  In many people with dark traits, fear experience and recognition may not be impaired.

     

    #36728

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Simon I agree that mental disorders are not best defined in the simplest terms and most convenient definitions. Autism is seen as being in a spectrum. The neat little categories of other disorders are not as neat and tidy as perceived.

    #36731

    Unseen
    Participant

    It seems to me that a fearful animal or person can exhibit fearlessness, especially when they feel cornered.

    #36733

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    There’s the fearlessness of the cornered animal.  There’s also courage, which isn’t necessarily the same as fearlessness.

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