The plus side of the establishment of Israel…

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

Is there an argument in there somewhere?

Nope. Just a statement of fact about all the Israel-haters and the Hamas they love.

Bernie and his Orthodox and Peacenik Jewish friends would all make great little Dhimmi puppy dogs for their Islamist masters as long as they pay their Jizyat (Head-Tax) and as long as Hamas doesn’t get a yen to shoot them like dogs like they did in the video Robert posted. (That was some very hard viewing that I haven’t finished and may not want to.)

Oh, and between his three mansions and his eyeglasses, Bernie would make a great Kosher dish for the Khmer Rouge Year Zero cannibal pot.

And “The Squad” in a “Free Palestine” could shop for the latest fashions and cosmetics as long as those fashions covered the face in public. Otherwise, the cosmetics would take the form of battery acid.

As for Queers for Palestine, I’ve heard it said that all Gay bars in Islamic nations are open rooftop parties that clear out pretty quickly.

Nope. No argument. Just Objective Reality that’s there when you sleep and there when you wake and doesn’t care about wishes, whims, or prayers.

[UnseenParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Nope. Just a statement of fact about all the Israel-haters and the Hamas they love.

When it comes to Israel, “I hate the sin, not the sinner.” I don’t blame Israel for existing but rather for their behavior toward the Palestinians. I don’t love Hamas, but I do understand the causality behind its existence. I’m a peace-loving person

Your entire evidence comes back to simply disagreeing with me.

Let me ask you this: Why would Al Qaeda and Hamas exist? Why would there have been a 9/11 and certain horrific terror attacks in France, the UK, and elsewhere? Why would we be taking our shoes off at the airports? if Israel had not been created?

Huh?

As for Hamas? I’m a peace-loving person. I have no love for Hamas. I just understand how and why it exists.

[jakelafortParticipant]

More BS from Unseen.

Does not stop. Keep drinking the lefty koolaid.

I am done responding.

[UnseenParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

More BS from Unseen.

Does not stop. Keep drinking the lefty koolaid.

I am done responding.

How schoolboyish! That’s the response of someone who has no coherent response.

[_Robert_Participant]

@Enco,

“Queers for Palestine” is akin to “Chickens for KFC”. Imagine if these campus-clowns and moron-professors who are wearing desert scarfs are ever called on to defend our nation’s existence the way young Israelis are doing right now.

@unseen,

Watch the video to see who you are rooting and tooting for. I suggest you have an empty stomach.

Your little thought exercise about our shoes, airports and Israel is rather under-developed. As if the high-birth rate Islamic theocracies don’t have a collision course with low-birth rate liberal democracies. As if India doesn’t have a powder keg with Islamic Pakistan. It all falls on Israel, LOL.

The nearby Arabs are done with the Palestinians who spent millions of international aid dollars digging hundreds of miles of rocket tunnels for their Persian Mullah Jihadi warlords.  Could literally fit the entire population of Gaza down there.  But no. Much better to hide under schools.

[UnseenParticipant]

@ Robert

I am not an enemy of Israel. Nor am I a buddy to Hamas. But Hamas is one of the effects the creation of Israel has had on the world. Ditto for 9/11. And the chain of events that has us going through an elaborate process to get on a plane traces back to the creation of Israel and of course before that to the Holocaust and Hitler, and before Hitler the Christians blaming the Jews for the crucifixion of Jesus. But if you took the creation of Israel out of that chain, we’d be living in a different and safer world. Nobody could have foreseen 9/11, Homeland Security, all the loss of freedom and security, international terrorism, etc., back at the time. And yet, there you are. All because of Israel. Totally unpredictable, but if you deny the causality, you’re being irrational.

Does Israel have a right to exist? Where does that sort of right come from? If Israel has a right to exist so the Jews can have a homeland, what about the Cherokee and Iroquois and all the other Native American nations? I’m a philosopher, so it’s in my nature to ask uncomfortable questions. I’m not sure the United States has a rightful claim or any other modern nation state.

I’ll leave it at that.

 

• This reply was modified 9 months, 1 week ago by  Unseen.

[_Robert_Participant]

Well, I agree you can compare the Native Americans to both the Jews and Palestinians. All three cultures were run out of their homelands and were slaughtered.  However Native Americans are not shooting rockets from tunnels at Washington DC. There are efforts to provide remedy. Land grants, subsidies, fishing and gambling rights that go beyond what the average citizen has. Also, there is a general respect for the culture.

And of the three groups, Palestinian Islamists have the unique goal of propagating their faith and repressive way of life the world over. You, being a philosopher and infidel have to know this. If in power over you, you would be kissing their asses all day and night; or they would gladly snuff you out or at least lock you up. Secular democracies have a long history of destroying themselves from within. Jihadists and dictators are more than happy to help.

[UnseenParticipant]

The image is confusing. This is a two-parter and the first half is germane to this topic if the video’s “thumbnail” isn’t.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

When it comes to Israel, “I hate the sin, not the sinner.” I don’t blame Israel for existing but rather for their behavior toward the Palestinians. I don’t love Hamas, but I do understand the causality behind its existence. I’m a peace-loving person.

Lolwut? I expect as much from hypocritical Christians trying to justify their horrible acts towards other people, but not from fellow Atheists.

Your entire evidence comes back to simply disagreeing with me.

Let me ask you this: Why would Al Qaeda and Hamas exist? Why would there have been a 9/11 and certain horrific terror attacks in France, the UK, and elsewhere? Why would we be taking our shoes off at the airports? if Israel had not been created?

Huh?

As for Hamas? I’m a peace-loving person. I have no love for Hamas. I just understand how and why it exists.

People have committed atrocities against human rights in the name of Allah long before there existed the United States, Israel, or Zionism, as well as in places without any Jews.

And people have committed atrocities against human rights in the name of their God or Gods long before some desert nobody gave the name “Allah” to his God.

And people have committed atrocities against human rights for reasons unrelated to and without God, the United States, Israel, Zionism, or Jews.

“Blowback” evidently can go in all directions, and if that’s the case, it doesn’t explain or justify anything.

• This reply was modified 9 months ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Misplaced HTML

[_Robert_Participant]

Well, those Ivy League students do need an outlet to counter their intense guilt for being so entitled. So privileged. So sure, let’s find the final solution for the Jewish problem so they feel better. From the river to the sea. Finish the job. Or maybe just back to Poland or Russia with them, you know, where the Jews will be safe? Then Harvard can take even more donations from Qatar’s Muslim Bro-hood government.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

Again, while all civilian deaths in war are horrible, you may want to reconsider the numbers of Gaza’s dead being thrown around. Even the United Nations had to concede the the number of child deaths were half what were previously given by UNICEF in March (fast forward to 24:22)

https://www.youtube.com/live/MInRobKPHZM?si=fDNzqKJH0R5Ko1uU

Also, there are all kinds of discrepancies and problems with the credibility of death statistics given by Hamas and UNRWA:

How the Gaza Ministry of Health Fakes Casualty Numbers
The evidence is in their own poorly fabricated figures
by Abraham Wyner
March 6, 2024
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers

[jakelafortParticipant]

Enco, I did not listen to the youtube video but the article ya linked is good. First time i realized that the media was reporting the numbers based on Hamas’ reports i just shook my head. There is just no end to the mass stupidity of ideologues and self proclaimed philosophers. Gee i wonder if Hamas is a hunnert pahcent nuts-on in its reports given that it is a propaganda machine out to convince the world that the Is.ra.A.Lis kill the women and the children in an unprecedented GENoCiDe! Lets see…they can’t win the war militarily. The best they can hope for is to get others to attack and have a few straggling survivors. They design their military plan to sacrifice Palestinian civilians not only by virtue of tunnels (where civilians are not allowed) and human shields but they fire rockets from areas that are densely populated so that return fire will kill civilians. And they interfere with the exit instructions given by the IDF. Their objective includes sacrificing their own puppets to infect the lefty morons (i know i should have written useful idiots but as i predicted it is becoming or is a go-to descriptor of lefty ideologues) with the mind virus that will ultimately lead to their suzerainty over all da voild! A surer bet than the numbers are an intentional overstatement to inflame passions one can scarcely find.

Interestingly Israel according to that military expert in urban warfare is doing historically unprecedented low kill ratio of combatants to civilians. That is the more amazing when one considers how hard the freedom fighting Hamas resistance forces are trying to sacrifice the Palestinians.

One of the related issues i have been thinking about is tackled by Sam Harris in the vid that follows. So i am thinking either you are a run of the mill Jew hater and or you have been persuaded by the far left that Israel is Satan and is actually an apartheid, colonialist, genocidal nightmare to such an outstanding degree that it alone should be scorned and destroyed in the middle east for its treatment of Palestinians. You have never researched how Palestinians are treated by their Arab kin in nearby nations? You have not considered how much better it is to live in Israel with its civil rights and freedoms than other parts of middle east. You have never read or been exposed to apologists for Israel or counter arguments and you suffer the human condition of unfettered confirmation bias.

So there you are a blue blood 20 year old university student filled with sophomoric conviction and righteous indignation. And man oh man are your compadres fired up! Ok i get it. Sad that critical thinking is absent in so many who are our brightest minds. Worse than sad but not completely unexpected. How did the voices of Jew hating lefties infiltrate our universities? And how on earth did they come to be aligned with Hamas? What the actual fucking fuck? Are they that ignorant and stupid?

https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/367-campus-protests-antisemitism-and-western-values

[UnseenParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

One of the related issues i have been thinking about is tackled by Sam Harris in the vid that follows. So i am thinking either you are a run of the mill Jew hater and or you have been persuaded by the far left that Israel is Satan and is actually an apartheid, colonialist, genocidal nightmare to such an outstanding degree that it alone should be scorned and destroyed in the middle east for its treatment of Palestinians.

On the surface, you seem to be accusing Enco of all that but I think you are really addressing me (although you promised on a stack of Hitchens books and articles that you’d never engage me on this topic again).

I have never hated a Jew and am not in favor of undoing the mistake of creating Israel because it’s far to late to unring that bell. Israel is in the apartheid tendencies stage. If it’s to remain a “Jewish state,” at some point it will need to go full apartheid and give up any claim to being a modern democracy because the demographics of Palestinian vs. Israeli birthrates are headed toward a non-Jewish majority.

You have never researched how Palestinians are treated by their Arab kin in nearby nations?

You’re actually proffering an “It’s okay cuz everybody’s doing it” argument? Anyway, which Arab state is currently actively killing Palestinians and destroying Gaza’s infrastructure right now?

You have not considered how much better it is to live in Israel with its civil rights and freedoms than other parts of middle east. You have never read or been exposed to apologists for Israel or counter arguments and you suffer the human condition of unfettered confirmation bias.

Oh, I see. Because we disagree I’m a know nothing. What a way to try to win an argument. LOL

[UnseenParticipant]

[_Robert_Participant]

The Iranian Shiitehead Mullahs are supplying Hamas and working on their nukes, meanwhile their own people are fed up with them. I’m sure the women especially miss their freedoms, education, music, and dance and are sick of wearing black tents. Hamas would be long gone without the Mullahs and Ayatollahs. I’m sure the Ayatollahs would love to get their hands on a Mediterranean seaport, but the local Sunnis might not like it much.

The Hamas-reported death toll is surprisingly low considering the human-shield situation and I doubt that many of the so-called “civilians” reported killed really are civilians. Stopping now makes no sense for Israel. I mean WTF is wrong with the West, just let it go on and on ? Stupid.

[Author]

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