Victim’s Remorse? Or something else?

[Belle RoseParticipant]

My former partner tried to commit murder/suicide. She didn’t succeed in killing me.

People have been saying things to me like, “she’s where she belongs.” (Because she’s in jail).

“She is where she belongs.”

I don’t know why but that just completely rubs me the wrong way. No one belongs in a cage. However, our society thus far has failed to find a more humane way to address these complex problems of balancing public safety with addressing complex trauma, mental illness, and violent offenders….

Ever since Court my stomach has been tied into knots. Is this what “justice served” really looks like in this country?

[StregaModerator]

Do you think she should’ve been locked away in a mental institution instead?  Society needed to be protected from her  inability to control herself, somehow.

Of course she blames you. You were the ‘Mata Hari’ that drove her to madness and despair etc etc.  When you got together with her, this behaviour wasn’t on the table with you saying fine, sure, bring it on.

You’re not a victim. You’re a survivor.

It was not your fault.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Belle Rose,

Some people are too mean for the peoples. Their acts of violence are not your fault or your responsibility.

Please keep yourself and your friends and loved ones safe from them with techniques of maintaining as best as possible your privacy and the security of your person and dwelling.

If there is any chance of this person getting free by a finite sentence, technicalities, etc. Use the laws of your jurisdiction to stay informed about your victimizer. There should be an Inmate’s Web Site which could help in this as well.

[—Participant]

Belle Rose wrote:

However, our society thus far has failed to find a more humane way to address these complex problems of balancing public safety with addressing complex trauma, mental illness, and violent offenders….

Probably. There may be cases where incarceration is the only viable solution or stop gap measure, but it seems like many have become disinvested in looking for better options where possible.

The Sts’ailes nation near me has developed/ returned to alternatives focused on healing. There are some case studies on it. I don’t have much data on outcomes, but I think it very much is worth investing in a continued departure from punitive ‘justice’. It’s difficult with violent offenders seeing as if something goes wrong, it’s easy for people to go “See, see? It doesn’t work!” but that’s not exactly a rational approach. Still, criminal reform is constantly an election issue, so it’s hard to find a great many politicians willing to roll the dice.

[UnseenParticipant]

Not every problem has a tidy and satisfactory solution. You need feel no guilt. You did nothing wrong. In a sense, neither did she. Everything we do is what we have to do in the moment because of everything that led up to that moment. Nothing happens that isn’t the child of what came before. Any changes or adjustments you or she might have made along the way to change things would, likewise, only have happened as a result of what came before.

I started another discussion about a world without praise and blame a few days ago and how carrying that sort of thing around in our heads is an unnecessary and illogical burden.

 

[DavisModerator]

You’re not a victim. You’re a survivor.

It was not your fault.

This!

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Belle Rose,

Another thing: Initiators of violence do not have to initiate violence and victims of violence do not have to sit and take it. Don’t let the Deterministic “Blame It On Midnight, Shame On The Moon” crowd tell you otherwise.

Also, initiators of violence and victims acting to defend themselves and their friends and loved ones are not moral equals. Acting in self-defense and owning the means to carry it out is morally your choice. Don’t let flowery-eyed Hoplophobes and apple-polishers for criminals and dictators tell you otherwise either.

Above all, as self-defense expert Dan Starks always concluded his radio program: Fight With Your Mind!

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Autumn,

Unless they have a Lost and Found Department that can get you not only your property and bodily integrity back, but your sense of security and innocence, I wouldn’t take stock in whatever the Sts’ailes are doing. And if they are one of the peoples who hold potlatches, I wouldn’t wait for justice to come as a gift either.

[—Participant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Autumn, Unless they have a Lost and Found Department that can get you not only your property and bodily integrity back, but your sense of security and innocence, I wouldn’t take stock in whatever the Sts’ailes are doing.

So basically you don’t know anything about it, yet you’re still somehow dismissive? You know, sometimes it’s okay to just accept you don’t know about something and remain agnostic. Not everything requires insipid commentary.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Belle Rose wrote:

Ever since Court my stomach has been tied into knots.

Conflicting emotions.

[Belle RoseParticipant]

Supposedly she’s been found “incompetent” and is awaiting transfer to a hospital for competency restoration. In this state there is a long wait list. People have sued and WON over it. Because it IS a violation of constitutional rights what they are doing. Right before this last hearing she called from jail (breaking the no contact order)….I’m hoping they will re-evaluate her as a result because on the phone unknowingly she blew her own cover….

[Belle RoseParticipant]

It was most definitely premeditated attempted murder

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Autumn,

So basically you don’t know anything about it, yet you’re still somehow dismissive? You know, sometimes it’s okay to just accept you don’t know about something and remain agnostic. Not everything requires insipid commentary.

The Sts’ailes nation near me has developed/ returned to alternatives focused on healing. There are some case studies on it. I don’t have much data on outcomes, but I think it very much is worth investing in a continued departure from punitive ‘justice’. It’s difficult with violent offenders seeing as if something goes wrong, it’s easy for people to go “See, see? It doesn’t work!” but that’s not exactly a rational approach. Still, criminal reform is constantly an election issue, so it’s hard to find a great many politicians willing to roll the dice.

The scheme of which you spoke involves some kind of nebulous “healing” of violent offenders that can “go wrong” and by your own admission above, you have no data about it, yet you accuse those who discount the alternative scheme as having “not exactly a rational approach” and being “incipient.”

Prima Facie, Ipso Facto, A Priori no. Just no.

A real rational approach to criminal justice is based on evidence, both immediate empirical evidence and evidence organized, recorded, collated, and shared. Richard Pryor gives a wonderful example of the first type of evidence and Criminologists can vouch for it with their own studies of the latter evidence.

Philosophy has also proven Mr. Pryor correct on the absurdity of Reincarnation and history has shown him prescient by just under 20 years of what everyone now knows about the most devout followers of The Religion of Peace and Compassion™. 😁

[—Participant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

The scheme of which you spoke involves some kind of nebulous “healing” of violent offenders that can “go wrong” and by your own admission above,

No.

you have no data about it, yet you accuse those who discount the alternative scheme as having “not exactly a rational approach” and being “incipient.”

I said ‘insipid’ not ‘incipient’. Incipient doesn’t make sense. Again, instead of just reflexively arguing, why don’t you just take the time to make sure you actually understood what you’ve read? It’s not that hard. I didn’t assert the  Sts’ailes approach was correct neither did I assert it involved ‘nebulous healing’. I stated it is an alternative model for which case studies have been done. While I haven’t researched it with much depth, someone interested in an alternative to the prevalent models in practice in Canada and the US today might find it of interest. As for it potentially going wrong, that’s true of any approach. Sadly, we work in statistical outcomes rather than absolutes in every case.

Prima Facie, Ipso Facto, A Priori no. Just no. A real rational approach to criminal justice is based on evidence,

Which you aren’t weighing. You’re just rejecting shit on reflex. Again, nothing requires you to make a determination here. It is absolutely fine to just say you don’t know much (or anything) about it or its efficacy. Instead you take the low integrity position and shoot your big yap off with your pretendspertise.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Belle Rose,

Supposedly she’s been found “incompetent” and is awaiting transfer to a hospital for competency restoration. In this state there is a long wait list. People have sued and WON over it. Because it IS a violation of constitutional rights what they are doing. Right before this last hearing she called from jail (breaking the no contact order)….I’m hoping they will re-evaluate her as a result because on the phone unknowingly she blew her own cover….

If you’re not blocking calls from jails or prisons, document everything involving her attempts at contact, times, dates, what is said or written, and let the courts and prosecutors know about it. This is certainly evidence she is acting competently and with premeditation.

Above all, stay safe. I’m pulling for you. 👍

[Author]

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