Humanism

I think we just need to dig a bit deeper. Its not a dead issue, after all. If we just use our skulls a little more we can figure this out.
That’s the spirit. Maybe we have a ghost of a chance at resolving this yet.

Or we can just give up and bite the dust. Perhaps this discussion is on its last legs.

But most norms aren’t random

Uhhh. Yes. A lot of them are. I mean…come on Simon, in parts of the world they lob off pieces of little children’s genitals. Want a less extreme example? To be presentable in an office in western countries a man has to wear an uncomfortable pointless cloth noose around their neck and in Southern Europe a woman has t…[Read more]

_Robert_ wrote:

I think we just need to dig a bit deeper. Its not a dead issue, after all. If we just use our skulls a little more we can figure this out.

That’s the spirit. Maybe we have a ghost of a chance at resolving this yet.

I think we just need to dig a bit deeper. Its not a dead issue, after all. If we just use our skulls a little more we can figure this out.

Cemeteries really are like parks, and a lot of them actually make it that way because they really want people to come visit, not stay away.… And if the families not there that day they wouldn’t even know so what difference would it make? I guess I’m interested to understand all the philosophies behind it, I don’t understand all that but I’m jus…[Read more]

I think what is sadder is where nobody goes to visit a grave whether they’re a stranger or not…

People can dislike the breaking of norms just because they are norms.  I guess it’s because groups are run using norms, and to break a norm threatens to rupture their moral order.

But most norms aren’t random, they have connection to things like benefit and harm, and respect.  This one is a case of respect.  Some people will dislike it, even if…[Read more]

It depends on the reason why they are upset.

I think in most cases, the reason why you are doing something, despite the fact that it upsets people…is more important than why someone gets upset about something. Pointlessly doing something that upsets someone, (whether they get upset for an understandable reason or a completely ridiculous…[Read more]

Simon Paynton wrote:

Davis wrote:

Who’s going to mind? That is the crucial question.

It depends very much on the moral system that you are using.

I’m curious as to which other people could be involved, under different moral systems. I would have thought it’s a question of simple reality.

In reality, you likely won’t find out who does or doesn…[Read more]

I’m curious as to which other people could be involved, under different moral systems.  I would have thought it’s a question of simple reality.

Under some deontological systems, depending on how you frame your moral rules, consistency is much more important than “upsetting particular people in a particular situation”. Though again that enti…[Read more]

Davis wrote:

Who’s going to mind? That is the crucial question.

It depends very much on the moral system that you are using.

I’m curious as to which other people could be involved, under different moral systems.  I would have thought it’s a question of simple reality.

Davis wrote:

upsetting people alone is not enough of a reason to not do something.

It depends on the reason why they are upset.  We tend to see “disrespecting your dead” as a sacred no-go area, while “disrespecting your beliefs” we understand as fair game.

Who’s going to mind?  That is the crucial question.

It depends very much on the moral system that you are using. And depending on the moral system it can also depend on moral norms. But yeah…of the three sorts of people you are referring to…people picnicking on a seemingly strangers grave could upset all three of those kinds of pe…[Read more]

Who’s going to mind?  That is the crucial question.

• the cemetary owners.
• the relatives of the deceased.
• onlookers.

In the last two cases, you could be accused of disrespecting the dead.  Is that what anybody wants?

They would likely get cited for trespassing doing something like that.

I’m not really looking for a legal answer here. There are all sorts of moral issues that are technically not illegal or not excluded by general rules or policies that can still be morally wrong. But in any case, I believe I can work out where you stand on the issue from your answers.

@Davis if they are abiding by all cemetery regulations and rules there is nothing wrong with it. If they are not then they are clearly out of line. Cemeteries don’t allow that kind of behavior…..I didn’t think I would need to add the caveat that “as long as they abide by cemetery rules,” but I’m adding it now. They would likely get cited for…[Read more]

If you’re talking about teenagers acting stupid and drinking beer on a grave versus somebody just bringing a blanket in a basket of food to have some lunch, those are two completely different pictures don’t you think?

Well no. You said there’s ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with it. That’s a fairly categorical response. You then asked why it would be…[Read more]

@Davis: so… To follow up on the example that you just gave… First of all, I worked at a funeral home and cemetery, actually a string of them in the area and I’m pretty familiar with the culture of that profession. It would be a violation of their rules to have teenagers drinking beer and having a party like that… So that would be actually against…[Read more]

edit: [removed] nm-I don’t feel like extending this particular tangent.

So yes, you’ve changed too much at this point. With the additional conditions you’ve attached to the question, I don’t really find it an interesting question is all I’m saying.

This is the only way to approach the problem deontologically (and at this point we were discussing only my deontological answer…not my various other answers). In a deont…[Read more]