Humanism

  • Davis replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    Ivy I don’t know what your answer actually is. Would you try to rectify a wage gap that is objectively demonstrated? Yes or no. Maybe is also allowed. But “there are more important things to worry about” or listing speculative theories of why it might happen (totally irrelevant to a discussion on a case where something objectively demonstrated,…[Read more]

  • Davis replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    As about comprehensive as you can get is a meta-meta study of meta-analysis andatheir own meta-analysis  done over several decades which rigourously control various factors which people usually use as excuses for why women who are equally productive make less than men. The result is: things have gotten better, which points to a recognition of the…[Read more]

  • PopeBeanie replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    So is this law gonna force corporations to give equal raises to underperforming minority professionals?

    So I may not have thought this out thoroughly enough, but I don’t like the idea of requiring companies to comply with affirmative action laws. There’s too much litigation involved as a remedy after the fact of alleged…[Read more]

  • PopeBeanie replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    I’m generally in favor of affirmative action measures, but the ones that have passed legislation (and then failed) lack guidelines for monitoring their effects. In particular, specific measurements from specific agencies should be outlined and periodically reconsidered, including guidelines for how to taper off every affirmative action program o…[Read more]

  • Ivy replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    I’m also still pretty amazed that no one has remotely answered a single one of my original questions.

     

    I did. You just  didn’t like my answers.

     

  • _Robert_ replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    The law exists. Equal Employment Opportunity Act has provisions for equal pay under equal circumstances.

    https://definitions.uslegal.com/e/equal-pay-act/

    This is why most US companies require managers/HR to keep updated records of employee performance, experience, etc. Salary justification and other “cover your ass” considerations has become is…[Read more]

  • Ivy replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    @Davis:

    I’m super confused here, because the whole conversation was about people doing the very same work and getting the same results, and yet women get paid less. This is well documented.

    Can you provide me an example? Some sort of peer reviewed article that proves this to be fact?

  • Davis replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    I’m also still pretty amazed that no one has remotely answered a single one of my original questions. It seems that even within these extremely tight parameters, highly limited examples where merit and output and quality are quantifiable and a wage disparity is proven by the data that there is undeniably a problem, would you try to rectify it? It…[Read more]

  • Davis replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    I’m really fascinated by your claim that gender wage disparity isnt ALL about gender. I’m curious what possible factor outside of gender would explain gender discrimination.

    IQ, personality traits, personal family life style preferences, learning disabilities or lack there of, mental health diagnoses or lack there of, motivation, learning sty…

    [Read more]

  • Ivy replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    Ivy is right. In fact, most men focus on what they do, not who they are.

    The kinds of questions that we should be asking are not whether or not women are capable of competing with men at the highest level and highest paying jobs (Which pretty much always require you to work… And nothing else) 80+ hours a week. The question should be more like w…[Read more]

  • Ivy replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    Based on our current track record I don’t think we can even do one thing at a time. Not as a collective whole anyway.

  • Strega replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    Ivy: “There’s other things we need to fix first”

    Are you suggesting we can only do one thing at a time?

  • _Robert_ replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    Ivy is right. In fact, most men focus on what they do, not who they are. In many ways women are not as foolish as men. They do care more about relationships. Men pay dearly for that extra X % of salary. Just listen to the TED talk in Sunday School.

  • Ivy replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    Davis, I can give you an example from my own life. The data supports this too. You know I’m a single mom with a special needs son who needs me in ways that I have to be there for him after school, evenings, weekends…I have been presented with many amazing opportunities to make a six-figure income or even higher. I have the intelligence ability and…[Read more]

  • Ivy replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    @Davis

    I’m really fascinated by your claim that gender wage disparity isnt ALL about gender. I’m curious what possible factor outside of gender would explain gender discrimination.

    IQ, personality traits, personal family life style preferences, learning disabilities or lack there of, mental health diagnoses or lack there of, motivation, lea…[Read more]

  • Ivy replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    Here is the question:

    If full equal pay of for all ages is not on the agenda at all (won’t be brought up for years) and there is a referendum on equal pay for men and women over 45 (in comparable positions) would you support such a law? Would you vote yes?

    I would read the bill in full detail, look for hidden agendas and ulterior motives. I w…[Read more]

  • Davis replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    And the men who “end up” in those same jobs still tend to be paid more than the women who do.

    Indeed Reg. Your guy, @Simon, is only half right. Not only do they get fewer high level jobs (even the unmarried career dedicators) but also make less in those jobs than non-women do.

    None of this is to say that men don’t deserve the salaries they get. W…[Read more]

  • but they tend to end up in less high-paying jobs…….

    And the men who “end up” in those same jobs still tend to be paid more than the women who do.

  • Simon Paynton replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    Jordan Peterson maintains that it’s a jobs gap rather than a pay gap.  I.e. women are paid the same as men, but they tend to end up in less high-paying jobs.

  • Davis replied to the topic Group logo of HumanismBaby steps in the forum Humanism 2 months, 1 week ago

    Both of you have spectacularly avoided the question. Ivy…I’m really fascinated by your claim that gender wage disparity isnt ALL about gender. I’m curious what possible factor outside of gender would explain gender discrimination.

    Robert I don’t know what your answer is. Your response is entirely made up of your own personal experience in one…[Read more]

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