Ridiculous Holy Books

[DavisModerator]

I read through the Quran when I was younger (I read a lot of Holy Books) and before I realised the general horror of the history of religion and power structures, I read all these holy books more as bizarre cultural artefacts rather than what they are (books of utter endless terror). I’ve been contributing to an annotated holy book project. While I still think that the Bible (especially the first five books) is the most obscene and horrific thing I’ve ever read in terms of a text that makes up people’s world view (I am absolutely not exaggerating here) it is actually much more painful to read the Quran.

Of course, like the Abrahamic faith books, it contains horrible moments, but it is actually full of less explicit accounts of God’s cruelty and more a ceaseless drive to get you to convert. What makes reading it pretty unbearable after a while, is that 90% of it is written to break you down, make you think you are stupid for doubting the content of the book, insulting non-believers, repeating that everything in it is true, stating the claim that it is true as evidence that it is true, promising rewards for believing and ENDLESSLY reminding you of the eternal fire if you do not (I have read very few suras that do not threaten you with torture for not believing). Apart from the sexism and homophobia and cruelty (it is doubtless there but in fact comes up a lot less than in the Bible) is the most grotesque part of the Quran: It tells you how forgiving, merciful and compassionate Allah is (at least once in almost every Sura) while at the same time threatening you with endless pain for not believing in him and many moments of Allah being unspeakably cruel and vicious to not just people but entire towns and even nearly the whole planet. Reading page after page of something that tells you how great A is, while A does stuff that convinces you A does not have this quality…is unsettling. You are also reminded in most Suras that Allah is the ultimate spy who sees everything you do, knows all your thoughts and has a virtual spreadsheet judging every action of yours. There is no escape, and nothing short of absolute submission and obedience is acceptable. I do not understand how anyone could read this book (besides being under pressure to) and be inspired to take this religion seriously.

It is a dark, scary, menacing, threatening terrible book. While the Bible is honestly more horrific, at least it has quite a few entertaining stories in there and some poetry and more frequent positive messages. They both have many scientific inaccuracies, impossible conflicting facts, content clearly written to manipulate and push a religion on you and endless immoral statements. I suggest picking up a Quran (or going to a website) and randomly reading three suras (a mix of short and medium length ones). Let me know how it goes.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

I have read sections of the Quran over the years. The similarities between it and the Bible are numerous. The same can be said of The Torah which I think is the equivalent to the Pentateuch or at least the 5 books attributed to Moses.  I have debated with Muslims too.  Their arguments for the existence of their god and their faith are no different to those of Christian apologists.

I don’t think many readers here will disagree with me when I say that we atheists know the Bible better than most Christians do. But I cannot say that of the Quran. Most, if not all Muslims I debate with will have very good knowledge of their book. That is not something to be proud of. The extent of the indoctrination is disgraceful.

I like to listen to both cults explain away the horrific violence and misogyny of their faiths. When I quote the verses about rape, incest, murder, theft, the mass murder of children, the stoning to death of innocent women, genocide (or herem – the complete annihilation of one’s enemies), to name a few of its horrors, I have to stand back to watch their faces contort.

But Christianity had a 600-year head start on Islam where it oversaw a reign of terror and violence for 1,000 years. Islam is today where Christianity was 600 years ago. Christianity’s violent nature has been quelled for the most part by the advances in the secular world. Hopefully another few generations will see it consigned to the “bad ideas dumpster”.  I could argue the same for the world of Islam which is seeing large increases in atheism and moves towards secular thinking. Iran will be interesting to watch.

While both sets of texts detail horrific actions, I find the “one I am now reading” to be the most repulsive to me. I think a good case can be made for the Old Testament being the more violent book.

[DavisModerator]

No doubt there is more violence in the Bible, and a larger amount of very graphic descriptions of cruelty and horror. They are both awful immoral books that cursed humanity from the day they were penned. The Quran however, is an endless repetitive cycle, you have the feeling you are being smacked on the head with a rolled up newspaper with insults, threats, manipulation, bribes, fear and multiple gas lighting techniques. With the Bible you are often a spectator and in the New Testament a bit of a target. This is why I do not know a single non muslim who has read more than a couple suras. You pretty much have a handle on the book after reading only a few and feel little desire to read more. With the Quran you are always the target.  SUBMIT. OBEY. BELIEVE. AGREE! While one book may be more awful, the other book may be more awful to have to read.

The Abrahamic religion and their offshoots (with a few minor exceptions including to a lesser degree Sikkhism) differ vastly from other world religions in their extreme near fetishim of a single book. Reading other religious texts feels like absolute child play in comparison. Some Hindu and Bhuddist texts are compelling reads, including fascinating early explorations of primitive psychology. A few key Taoist texts are absolute delight to read. In these religions you can easily be a follower without ever reading one of the MANY texts in their cannons, have to refer to a text, debate a text or rely on a text. There was something revolutionary, and at the same time menacing and pernicious about the creation of a singular unquestionable book (especially filled with unchanging moral rules).

• This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by  Davis.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

‘The moment he is released, kill him, even if he has repented’, said the cleric from the Religion of Peace.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Reg, Davis, and Fellow Unbelievers,

I’ve said before that if a bloodthirsty Autism-spectrum child could write, The Qu’ran would probably be what it would look like.  And that’s no slam against the overwhelmingly friendly children on the spectrum, of course, just acknowledgement of how they often repeat themselves.

The Qu’ran cribbed a lot from both the Christian Holy Bible and the Jewish Torah, but The Great Flood story of Noah was cribbed from The Epic of Gilgamesh, which, in turn, was preceded by three previous flood stories.  Most likely, the other parts of these scriptures came from previous stories of blood and gore from other peoples.

These scriptures are just reflections and embodiments of man’s inhumanity to man, and cruel men made for cruel gods and worshipping those cruel gods made for more cruel men, in a feedback loop of misery, tyranny, and death.  We’re just now starting to splice the tape to break the cycle.

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