Sunday School

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Unseen wrote:

Adults, one hopes, cooperate for the good of a collective (family, community, employer, club, whatever). That comes over time with life experience and maturity.

We also coooperate just to get things done that we need to achieve and benefits we need to gain.  We also cooperate because socially we enjoy it – a benefit gained through collaboration and sharing is always more enjoyable.

So, evolutionarily, in the human family tree, those who were best at cooperating statistically won out survival- and reproduction-wise in the long term, leading to the innate cooperation skills we see in 3 year-old children playing together.  The point is not how much these are counteracted by selfish or aggressive motives – the wonder is that they’re there at all, in plenty, if you control for them in elegant experiments.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Why does Islam seem so authoritarian compared with other religions?  Is it really more authoritarian than some of the Christians?

I have been reading a bit and finding out about Hinduism.  They encourage free-thinking and free enquiry – within a rigid framework of rituals connected with ideas of sacredness and purity, and “feudal ethics” (the caste system).  These maintain the sacred order of things which includes the caste system.

I think they’re all authoritarian in various ways.  Religion forms a moral domain – with a goal (worshipping God, enlightenment) and methods of achieving it (religious observance).  Morality has a light and a dark side, like the moon.  Authoritarianism is the dark, harsh, punishing side of morality and hence, religion.

But why is religion, as a moral domain, particularly harsh and authoritarian?  Is it to do with having to stick to a single world view whether you like it or not – “it’s my way or the highway”?  The highway is a very bad place you wouldn’t want to be.

Religion always, in one way or another, is really big on purity of one kind or another.  The presence of ideas of purity means something is sacred: it’s of infinite value, above all else in importance, and nothing else will replace it.  So – fuck you to hell if you don’t believe in exactly our version of organised religion.

But it seems to apply to the organised religions in a special way compared with the local tribal religions.  Maybe it’s just on a bigger scale.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

Generations upon generations of mindless devotion, fear, and authoritarian control resulting in retardation of normal curiosity and intellectual exploration might be inheritable in terms of intelligence? It would certainly aid the mind virus of Islam to dumb down its hosts. IDK

Muslim people don’t lose their wits, or common intelligence, just because their religion is oppressive.  They have to know how to find how to live some kind of life in that stifling environment.  That takes intelligence.

Where’s the reproductive selection pressure, in this situation, against intelligence?

[jakelafortParticipant]

Simon says,

Muslim people don’t lose their wits, or common intelligence, just because their religion is oppressive. They have to know how to find how to live some kind of life in that stifling environment. That takes intelligence.

Where’s the reproductive selection pressure, in this situation, against intelligence?

WISH I KNEW HOW TO DO THAT DEVILTRY IN ITALICS.

Sure, negotiating one’s life in a way that minimizes beatings and avoids amputations, decapitations and honor killings is a sort of aptitude i suppose. But i mean come on man! Never learning to do any kind of critical thinking. How many intelligent people would volunteer to be suicide bombers? Where or how are those 72 virgins generated? Do Jews really have a tail, a third eye and the greatest good and honor in one’s life is to be a Jew slayer? That is the highest achievement in life?

Rote learning. Confirmation bias. Yeck! That aint really thinking.

I think natural selection ended when culture was erupting. So in terms of sexual selection it is against a state of nature in that females choose the mate at least some of the time. (I assume that in western nations Muslim women have some say over their life partners) So the dynamic where a key factor in selecting a male is their intelligence is thwarted. Doing so might have real consequences for the greater population.

Intelligence in that controlled environment may be a disadvantage in terms of your word thriving. Greater discontent might indeed result were one born into the I cult and yet thinking (beyond how to simply survive and cope) and therefore desperate about their circumstances.

But i am more wondering whether the stifling of learning can ultimately cause a reduction of intelligence in the overall population. And i suppose the example of Christianity and centuries of mind fucking argues against the idea. Then again what would the population have become in the absence of Christian mind control?

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

I think they’re all authoritarian in various ways.  Religion forms a moral domain – with a goal (worshipping God, enlightenment) and methods of achieving it (religious observance).  Morality has a light and a dark side, like the moon.  Authoritarianism is the dark, harsh, punishing side of morality and hence, religion.

Islam is currently the most barbaric religion and is now where Christianity was 500 years ago. Islam is indoctrinated into the minds of children in many parts of the world and Hamas is one of the worst offenders. It preaches that its picayune ideas are to be held above those in any other subject. The roots of Hamas’ terror attack in Israel can be found in Gaza’s schools.  While the Palestinian people live in poverty the Hamas leadership are billionaires.

If only I was an Ivy League student, I would be better able to figure it out and not have to wonder why Netanyahu said that the price Hamas will pay is its very existence.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

WISH I KNEW HOW TO DO THAT DEVILTRY IN ITALICS.

Use the quote function, or the ” blue button (block quote on/off).

[jakelafortParticipant]

Thanks Simon.

I liked the article about schools but it is a bit misleading in failing to convey the scope of the issue.

It is not just Gaza. It is all over the middle east. It is a cultural/religious obsession. And it is far more hard core than is conveyed. The video i recently linked tells story of a kid who grew up there and it captures the sickening obsession with demonizing/murdering Jews. It also portrays the death cult in a way that is palpable.

It is worth pointing out that Egypt was working with Israel to fight Hamas. After the October attack Egypt’s government and media lied about the nature of Hamas’attack. A brave Egyptian journalist tried to tell the truth and her life was threatened. She had to move. Same thing happened all over the middle east. The one thing that unites the other nations in middle east is the attitude towards Jews. The unanimity of hatred and scapegoating the evil Jews is sacrosanct. Reminds me of history of Spain and the reconquista. Hatred of Jews and Muslims in that case united peoples who otherwise hadn’t much in common. Praise religion.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

If only I was an Ivy League student, I would be better able to figure it out and not have to wonder why Netanyahu said that the price Hamas will pay is its very existence.

I think it’s understandable (never mind right or wrong) given the zero-sum situation they are both in.  Hamas wants to wipe out Israel; Netanyahu doesn’t want a two-state solution *.  Neither side wants to live and let live.

* presumably, if there was a two-state solution, Hamas would be redundant.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

But i am more wondering whether the stifling of learning can ultimately cause a reduction of intelligence in the overall population.

I don’t see how it can cause a general reduction in intelligence.  But what it must do is to hold back the culture and the economic prosperity of the country (e.g., Iran).  Also: you don’t see a lot of science coming out of Islamic countries, unless I’ve missed it.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

Neither side wants to live and let live.

Having said that, it’s not a two-player game.  It’s three or four players at least (Israel, Palestinians, Hamas, Iran).

[_Robert_Participant]

Jews, Christians and Muslims are just variations of the same cult. When the ancient Jews had their temple destroyed (they used it to sacrifice animals to Yahweh), a sect decided to give up on trying to defeat the Roman empire (“give to Ceaser”), and envisioned a spiritual struggle they could win; coupled with a symbolic one-time sacrifice to appease God. Pretty clever really.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Simon the deviltry is still beyond my ken. Aint got a legal secretary any longer so i will just respond to some of your thoughts.

2 state solution WAS desired by a lot of Israelis. You are certainly correct about Netanyahu. I emphasize was. Not fuzzy wazzy waz a bear and had no hair. Palestinians are indoctrinated into Jew hatred and river to sea from the earliest. Furthermore as i have indicated repeatedly the greater Muslim middle east to various degrees aligns with Palestinians as to Jew hatred and holy land throw the muthafuckingjewsthefuckout. That is why a coalition attacked immediately after the partition.

After Israel’s counterattack on Gaza i can’t see Palestinians becoming less fervent in their lunacy. Peace and a good western-style life was never their objective thanks to Islam and cultural degeneracy. Proof is in the pudding from 2005 on. And i can only assume that most of the lefty Jews will be less amenable to 2 states because they’re angy and do not trust Palestinians. 2 states just makes Israel more vulnerable to attack.

As to impact of Islam on intellectual achievement. Yeah right! That kind of thing is discouraged. I fully concede i am only speculating and wondering whether dark age lives in cerebral bondage dumb down the general population. And probably the analogy to living in a cave and losing eyesight is inapposite.

It is really amazing how easily led humans are. These protests are testament to what i said and thought all along. The Palestinians are not the concern. The government of Israel and its transgressions are irrelevant and only a pretext for JEW HATRED. It is so endemnic. And now that the lefties have idoctrinated another generation of brain waves antisemitism is the ongoing threat to Jews it always was. Oh my fucking god why we don’t teach from first grade on critical thinking. It is worth a shot.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Isn’t it amazing how misguided the lefties are? These protests are further evidence of how easily led humans are. Supporting Hamas? WTactualF? The lefty’s Jew hatred is not only a danger to Jews for decades to come but leaves the victims of Islam to fry ice in lives of quiet desperation. Meanwhile the virus of Islam is successfully spreading and infiltrating wherever it finds a chinc.

In the absence of their obsession with Jew hatred over the tiny and relatively insignificant state known as Israel the lefties could have inculcated positive ideas that might make a difference in civilization. There are agendas that all decent humans will agree to: clean water for all, end of all totalitarian governments, combatting climate change, addressing threats from AI and nucs, altering the protocol and prologues of war to discourage them, basic fundamental civil rights for all humans, an effort to see ALL humans as 1 big tribe instead of our tribal BS.

But no. Lets just hate on the Jews. Turn our young ones into woke brain dead robots of political speech with the correct pronouns and some other insignificant shit.

Have a drink.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

2 states just makes Israel more vulnerable to attack.

So it’s currently a zero-sum game, that is being wound up rather than wound down with tit-for-tat-plus-raging anger.

Things need to be wound down rather than wound up.  That’s the only way to bring peace, which is presumably what the Palestinians and the Israelis want.  Maybe not Hamas and Iran.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Simon,

Wound up, wound down, wound all around.

Mortal enemies can become allies. Like mayo and french fries.

Before long a Marshall Plan and the past went into the sanican. But so did Nazism.

Islam on other hand ain’t leaving. The lefties are deceiving. I can’t convey just how automatic Jew hatred is and the antipathy of Muslims towards Jews having a state in THEIR HOLY LAND. It is what unifies peoples who otherwise are not on good terms. As long as this state of affairs continues peace and acceptance is chimerical. Two states is not something any of the Muslim players want. They have ALWAYS wanted river to sea. Never 2 states. Jews being there as dhimmis in an Arab state? That was the best version of a bad bargain for Muslims. The better one was an Arab state only and all the Jews killed.

I keep saying it and everything i read and watch reenforces the view i held when the topic arose here. You can intellectualize it all you want but the bottom line is intolerance of Islamic mindset against Jews and their state is the ultimate obstacle to peace. How pervasive is it? I could link you a slew of videos but this lady here is interesting. She has her own podcast and tells her story and interviews other apostates.

[Author]

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