michael17

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  • #8080

    michael17
    Participant

     

     

    Was Job not the son of Aram? It was thought that Uz was the “Uz” as in Uzbekistan. However, I do suspect Syria is a better option, though I am not sure if it is known exactly where it was. I know many “Born Again” Christians. I find them to be very decent and moral people. Whenever I help any of them or JW’s (especially the JW’s) to see reason and “lose their faith”, I am always told that they “were never real Christians” in the first place. I was once told this by a woman who was converted to Christianity by the very person she was claiming was never a true believer in the first place. Not long after I brought that fact to her attention she too became an atheist 🙂

     

     

     

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      Reg I slept that one. Your question was so obvious and I do my village idiot act 😀.

    I find the son of Aram a good role model short of the rebirth of which I don’t have.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  michael17.
    #8077

    michael17
    Participant
    living oracles of God

    Yikes.

    they heal the sick, cleanse the leprer and raise the dead

    Could you give a concrete example of this?

    Christianity must put up or shut up.  Without the day to day events descibed in the Book of acts continuing in the present no church has any legitimacy.

    The only excuse that I accept is the “body” has suffered almost complete martyrdom under parochial authorities.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  michael17.
    #8076

    michael17
    Participant

    So is Biblical Aram more important to you than Biblical Adam? I am friends with an atheist from Uzbekistan and we have talked about going there for a visit but I am more keen on a visit to Syria at some point.

    Aram is associated with Syria. However I have not   ascribed any particular importance to Aram. Syria itself  eventually was apart of the Ptolemy Empire.

     

    #8072

    michael17
    Participant

    Michael, is that because you have a personal relationship with Jesus? You cut out the middleman (e.g. the priests or Church)?

    I am not born again. And I don’t believe anyone that says they are.  My relationship is more mundane like      in the book of Job.

    Keep your life and mind clean, be charitable  and your life will be blessed and stand clear of falsehood. I do want the new birth but I’m afraid   nowadays it’s almost impossible without finding the living oracles of God. If you have been watching ‘The Curse of Oak Island’ they are digging for Crusader treasure and possibly the ark of the covenant. I’m digging for the same thing so to speak but the living. ark of the covenant who appear to be in hiding and these signs go with them, they heal the sick, cleanse the leprer and raise the dead. Without these signs from the first Century, we are without the body of Christ.

    #8067

    michael17
    Participant

    Even as a Christian I find Churches false. Which is not a judgement on the congregations but the leadership. There are sincerely  thirsty people out there but that leadership is destitute concerning the power of God. We don’t need a cacophony of doctrine nor false miracles from   TV evangelist. We need the real McCoy, the full Monte.

    I believe the Truth has been martyred from the face of the earth by parochial authorities.

    Is the remnant hiding in the wilderness from the face of the dragon (Rome) and shall begin their testimonies in the future? Well that’s our only hope.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  michael17.
    #8064

    michael17
    Participant

    “I find most Catholics don’t read, if they even own one”.

    These are the groveling masses steep in steeple chasing that deserve a royal kick in the pants! 😉 ( My  tongue in cheek profile comment)

     

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  michael17.
    #8058

    michael17
    Participant

    LOL, yes why waste a good stake burning! 😋

    #8054

    michael17
    Participant

    Talking of apostacy, my heretical views would have already cost me a burning at the stake by parochial authorities  two centuries ago.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  michael17.
    #8047

    michael17
    Participant

    Ah the Jehovah Wittness again. I admire your forbearance.🙂

    #8044

    michael17
    Participant

    Yes there is a Y-Chromosomal Adam. And I don’t intent to muddy the waters by referring to him.

    I dispute that there was not a bottleneck at the start of the bronze age. I attribute the swarm R1b haplogroup replacing the ice-age Megafuana haplogroups of man from the East being consistant with the spread of the sons of Adam. There could only have been a sudden dissappearance of prexisting haplogroups if these men came to an end.

    Theorist in the article I presented has different theories. From a biblical point of view the first metal workers are from Adam.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  michael17.
    #8039

    michael17
    Participant

    Repost from seven years ago:

    How did R1b come to replace most of the older lineages in Western Europe ?
    Until recently it was believed that R1b originated in Western Europe due to its strong presence in the region today. The theory was that R1b represented the Paleolithic Europeans (Cro-Magnon) that had sought refuge in the Franco-Cantabrian region at the peak of the last Ice Age, then recolonised Central and Northern Europe once the ice sheet receded. The phylogeny of R1b proved that this scenario was not possible, because older R1b clades were consistently found in Central Asia and the Middle East, and the youngest in Western and Northern Europe. There was a clear gradient from East to West tracing the migration of R1b people (see map above). This age of the main migration from the shores of the Black Sea to Central Europe also happened to match the timeframe of the Indo-European invasion of Europe, which coincides with the introduction of the Bronze-Age culture in Western Europe, and the spread of Italo-Celtic and Germanic languages.
    Historians and archeologists have long argued whether the Indo-European migration was a massive invasion, or rather a cultural diffusion of language and technology spread only by a small number of incomers. The answer could well be “neither”. Proponents of the diffusion theory would have us think that R1b is native to Western Europe, and R1a alone represent the Indo-Europeans. The problem is that haplogroup R did arise in Central Asia, and R2 is still restricted to Central and South Asia, while R1a and the older subclades of R1b are also found in Central Asia. The age of R1b subclades in Europe coincide with the Bronze-Age. R1b must consequently have replaced most of the native Y-DNA lineages in Europe from the Bronze-Age onwards.
    However, a massive migration and nearly complete anihilation of the Paleolithic population can hardly be envisaged. Western Europeans do look quite different in Ireland, Holland, Aquitaine or Portugal, despite being all regions where R1b is dominant. Autosomal DNA studies have confirmed that the Western European population is far from homogeneous. A lot of maternal lineages (mtDNA) also appear to be of Paleolithic origin (e.g. H1, H3, U5 or V) based on ancient DNA tests. What a lot of people forget is that there is also no need of a large-scale exodus for patrilineal lineages to be replaced fairly quickly. Here is why.Polygamy. Unlike women, men are not limited in the number of children they can procreate. Men with power typically have more children. This was all the truer in primitive societies, where polygamy was often the norm for chieftains and kings.Status & Power. Equipped with Bronze weapons and horses, the Indo-Europeans would have easily subjugated the Neolithic farmers and with even greater ease Europe’s last hunter-gatherers.If they did not exterminate the indigenous men, the newcomers would have become the new ruling class, with a multitude of local kings, chieftains and noblemen (Bronze-Age Celts and Germans lived in small village communities with a chief, each part of a small tribe headed by a king) with higher reproductive opportunities than average.Gender imbalance. Invading armies normally have far more men than women. Men must therefore find women in the conquered population. Wars are waged by men, and the losers suffer heavier casualties, leaving more women available to the winners.Aggressive warfare. The Indo-Europeans were a warlike people with a strong heroic code emphasising courage and military prowess. Their superior technology (metal weapons, wheeled vehicles and warhorses) and attitude to life would have allowed them to slaughter any population that did not have organised armies with metal weapons (i.e. anybody except the Middle-Eastern civilizations).
    Genetic predisposition to conceive boys. The main role of the Y-chromosome in man’s body is to create sperm. Haplogroups are determined based on mutations differentiating Y-chromosomes. Each mutation is liable to affect sperm production and sperm motility. Preliminary research has already established a link between certain haplogroups and increased or reduced sperm motility. The higher the motility, the higher the chances of conceiving a boy. It is absolutely possible that R1b could confer a bias toward more male offspring. Even a slightly higher percentage of male births would significantly contribute to the replacement of other lineages with the accumulation effect building up over a few millennia. Not all R1b subclades might have this boy bias. The bias only exist in relation to other haplogroups found in a same population. It is very possible that the fairly recent R1b subclades of Western Europe had a significant advantage compared to the older haplogroups in that region, notably haplogroup I2 and E-V13. Read more Replacement of patrilineal lineages following this model quickly becomes exponential. Imagine 100 Indo-European men conquering a tribe of 1000 indigenous Europeans (a ratio of 1:10). War casualties have resulted in a higher proportion of women in the conquered population. Let’s say that the surviving population is composed of 700 women and 300 men. Let’s suppose that the victorious Indo-European men end up having twice as many children reaching adulthood as the men of the vanquished tribe. There is a number of reason for that. The winners would take more wives, or take concubines, or even rape women of the vanquished tribe. Their higher status would garantee them greater wealth and therefore better nutrition for their offspring, increasing the chances of reaching adulthood and procreating themselves. An offspring ratio of 2 to 1 for men is actually a conservative estimate, as it is totally conceivable that Bronze-Age sensibilities would have resulted in killing most of the men on the losing side, and raping their women (as attested by the Old Testament). Even so, it would only take a few generations for the winning Y-DNA lineages to become the majority. For instance, if the first generation of Indo-Europeans had two surviving sons per man, against only one per indigenous man, the number of Indo-European paternal lineages would pass to 200 individuals at the second generation, 400 at the third, 800 at the fourth and 1600 at the fifth, and so on. During that time indigenous lineages would only stagnate at 300 individuals for each generation.

    Based on such a scenario, the R1b lineages would have quickly overwhelmed the local lineages. Even if the Indo-European conquerors had only slightly more children than the local men, R1b lineages would become dominant within a few centuries. Celtic culture lasted for over 1000 years in Continental Europe before the Roman conquest putting an end to the priviledges of the chieftains and nobility. This is more than enough time for R1b lineages to reach 50 to 80% of the population.
    The present-day R1b frequency forms a gradient from the Atlantic fringe of Europe (highest percentage) to Central and Eastern Europe (lowest), the rises again in the Anatolian homeland. This is almost certainly because agriculture was better established in Eastern, then Central Europe, with higher densities of population, leaving R1b invadors more outnumbered than in the West. Besides, other Indo-Europeans of the Corded Ware culture (R1a) had already advanced from modern Russia and Ukraine as far west as Germany and Scandinavia. It would be difficult for R1b people to rival with their R1a cousins who shared similar technology and culture. The Pre-Celto-Germanic R1b would therefore have been forced to settled further west, first around the Alps, then overtaking the then sparsely populated Western Europe.

    This theorist does not consider the annihilation of the indigenous Cro-magnon Haplogroup in Europe as a result of a cataclysm that ended the Mega-fauna as I do.

     

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  michael17.
    #8026

    michael17
    Participant

    A quicker reference to see the disappearance of megafauna-ice age haplogroups just prior to the sons of Adam. There is a slight overlap into biblical times which may be attributed to the precision and accuracy of the dating  method. This of course should be investigated.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  michael17.
    #8018

    michael17
    Participant

    “Are you trying to say that modern humans have a different number of chromosomes to earlier Homo sapiens from the Ice Age? What exactly is that genetic difference between “us and them”? Again, all humans are genetically similar. There may be minor genetic differences between isolated groups. Peoples living high up in the Himalayas may have evolved extra veins in the lips to combat the cold. Nepalese runners almost always beat seasoned “Western” marathon runners in the Himalayan marathon because of how their lungs are more efficient at processing oxygen at altitude. Even some blind humans have evolved to use echo location by making clicking sounds…..”-

    No, I’m saying that haplogroups  of ice age men have disappeared from the face of the earth coinceding with the sons of Adam.  Please see the time line in the link below:

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml

    “That is a great attempt to square modern science with the Book of Genesis. Bravo Michael but did we not have a similar argument 7 years ago on TA?”

    You have a phenomenal memory Reg!

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  michael17.
    #8004

    michael17
    Participant

    What exactly are the sons of Adam?

    The races of today. Also in Europe the populations of today are genetically different from the ice age populations. Having different haploid groups.

    #7999

    michael17
    Participant

    “The Eve mentioned by Simon is “Mitochondrial Eve“. Please read the”common misconceptions”  Good article.   The gap or bottleneck that gets little attention as of late is the civilization gap between Jericho, Catal Huyuk  Bay of Cambay 9000BCE and Mesopotamia 3000 BCE. The morphologically different Paleoamerican would be concurrent with Megafauna-ice age civilizations. I posit that this corresponds to the end of ice age races and the start of the sons of Adam. (With the sons of Adam commencing in ~6000 BCE)

    Also in Europe the populations of today are genetically different from the ice age populations. Having different haploid groups.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  michael17.
Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 79 total)