Reg the Fronkey Farmer

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    @ Belle  -I was implying that Muslims would be delighted to know that there was a portrait gallery with pictures of Mohammad and\or Allah. They really appreciate art and music.

    Yes, I have Plato’s Cave under control. I have it tattooed on my back!!


    We could go visit his portrait gallery?


    Most excellent Robert. If you ever hear about people finding “The God Delusion” or “God is not Great” in a library or a bookshop’ “Religion Section”, I was probably there. In fact we should all do that at every chance 🙂


    @simon  – The problem with the religious right is that they are wrong and the religious left have not. They are still here. Religion – giving both sides hope in a world torn apart by religion.


    Going to celebrate the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem for Christmas is like visiting a cave in Crete to celebrate the birth of Zeus.


    Have a great week everyone!!

    “Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.”

    Richard Dawkins.


    @strega, Anything excepting Alice that is and only once you are prepared to walk a half a mile. I sometimes run there.


    It is now illegal to use the words “ass and elbow”in the same sentence. I know I just did but I don’t care. “Smash the System”!!


    A Catholic priest in his nineties is on his death bed. He confesses to another priest that he had abused and raped children in his care for over sixty years. The confessor absolves him of his “sins”, tells him God forgives him and then he dies. According to the Catholic Church he died in a state of grace and so takes a first class carriage to Heaven where he will become an immortal.

    One of his victims who grew up in a Catholic institution was repeatedly raped and beaten for 12 years from the age of five, like thousands of other children in Church “care”. As a young adult the victim turns to drugs and alcohol.  After a few short years, knowing nothing of love, friendship or a secure home this person takes their own life. According to the Catholic Church this person was a sinner and will go to Hell.

    Any apologist want to point out where I am wrong?


    Maybe the term “Optimum” would be better than “maximum” or “perfection”?? It leaves space for growth and improvement rather than implying that there is an ideal to be reached or a specific end point in sight. Optimum would indicated a continuous journey that always allows for change. It will maintain a sense of relativism to a time and place and do away with absolutes.


    No, now can I please breathe out??


    When we attempt to make rational pronouncements on how humans should best interact with each other we are engaging in a philosophical debate that has more to do with ethics than with morality. I will admit that books about morality and about ethics sit on the same shelf.

    Aristotle considered ethical behaviour as something that was to be continually improved upon. He saw this as virtuous (his 4 Cardinal Virtues) and thought (and taught) we should strive for perfection. This would lead us to become “well beings” and that would allow for us to, as you call it, “flourish”.

    Once you introduce the concept of “Perfection” in a conversation about morality you are dealing with absolutes. This renders the conversation futile as there are no absolutes. Morality is relative. However philosophical ethics leads to better conversations and in turn can lead to an increase in “wellbeing-ness” (my term). It allow us to be a continuous work in progress where new understandings and experiences can make us wiser and allow us to pass on the wisdom of our knowledge to others. We never aim for perfection as we can never be perfect.  If we just aim to be the best we can be then that is enough.

    I find very little wisdom and even less attempts at any ethical understanding of humanity in religious text. They may have help some people to move a few steps forwards but overall I find them to be of no use. Reading philosophy and engaging in dialogue is the best way forward. That and then thinking about the discussion. Religious thinking and absolutes get us nowhere.



    All I have to say to that is “Klaatu barada nikto“.




    To understand the thoughts and musings of philosophers and to be able to explain their ideas to others, I like to bear in mind the words of Hegel – the study of the history of Philosophy is an introduction to Philosophy itself.

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