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	<title>Atheist Zone | Martin lambert | Group Activity</title>
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				<title>_Robert_ replied to the topic Ethical dilemma: Ghosting in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51440</link>
				<pubDate>Mon, 20 Nov 2023 13:18:40 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
<a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51438" rel="nofollow ugc">Simon Paynton wrote:</a><br />
It sounds like the guy didn’t know he was hurting people by ghosting them, when he should have done, because he was. Maybe British people are used to it, it’s normal to them, so they expect it. He had a failure of empathy (cognitive perspective-taking) driven by a lack of empathic concern (caring). He should have cared eno&hellip;</p></blockquote>
<p><span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-40291"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51440" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>Simon Paynton replied to the topic Ethical dilemma: Ghosting in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51438</link>
				<pubDate>Mon, 20 Nov 2023 09:37:22 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sounds like the guy didn&#8217;t know he was hurting people by ghosting them, when he should have done, because he was.  Maybe British people are used to it, it&#8217;s normal to them, so they expect it.</p>
<p>He had a failure of empathy (cognitive perspective-taking) driven by a lack of empathic concern (caring).  He should have cared enough about someone he w&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-40288"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51438" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>Davis replied to the topic Ethical dilemma: Ghosting in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51409</link>
				<pubDate>Sat, 18 Nov 2023 12:48:09 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pope, you definitely touched on a genuine aspect of why ghosting is so easy. For some people it does require flexing unflexed muscles. In my work, we have to use extreme care with everyword and put significant thought into how we phrase things. This is the opposite of typical locker room talk, where in my icehockey changeroom every ginger is&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-40261"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51409" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>Davis replied to the topic Ethical dilemma: Ghosting in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51407</link>
				<pubDate>Sat, 18 Nov 2023 12:39:48 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all your replies. I would say that you don&#8217;t have to be specific when letting someone down. In your trans case, just tell the person you&#8217;re sorry for wasting their time, you aren&#8217;t feeling it and wish them the best.</p>
<p>To give you an idea of how prevalent ghosti g is in Scotland, I had chatted with a lad for 5 weeks, almost daily.&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-40260"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51407" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>PopeBeanie replied to the topic Ethical dilemma: Ghosting in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51405</link>
				<pubDate>Sat, 18 Nov 2023 01:15:30 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the context of this group, and your topic, specific question and my experience, I don&#8217;t think much in terms of valence wrt morality or what&#8217;s &#8220;wrong&#8221;. I focus on improving my recognition and employment of empathy, which has been a decades long process for me. I&#8217;d say that empathy plus objectivity, together with limitations on expectations and&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-40258"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51405" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>PopeBeanie replied to the topic Ethical dilemma: Ghosting in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51403</link>
				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Nov 2023 22:54:12 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve not yet read other responses, to give my most unbiased opinion. Although I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;m a cultural outlier, I&#8217;m also fairly sure that my affinity to bonding with friends, and my level of empathy for strangers lie near the end of a human scale that goes from &#8220;really want it and need it, and take this personally&#8221; to &#8220;meh, I&#8217;m not into it and to&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-40256"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51403" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>Unseen replied to the topic Ethical dilemma: Ghosting in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51402</link>
				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Nov 2023 19:06:24 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
<a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51398" rel="nofollow ugc">TheEncogitationer wrote:</a><br />
Oh, and “ghosting” bills you’ve voluntarily assumed is a shit move, especially with Medical professionals who are oath-bound to “First, do no harm” and to sustain human life.</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>At least make payment arrangements and pay what little you can until it’s all knocked out. No debt lasts to infinity unless you never pay it.</blockq&hellip;</p></blockquote>
<p><span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-40254"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51402" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>Unseen replied to the topic Ethical dilemma: Ghosting in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51401</link>
				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Nov 2023 18:10:36 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
<a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51395" rel="nofollow ugc">_Robert_ wrote:</a><br />
At any given time, I’d say 20% of daters get about 80% of the action. The people everyone wants to be with. They will ghost you and not even think about.</p></blockquote>
<p>I once saw a piece about a guy who claimed to have sex with different women several times a week. His secret: Just hang out, develop a quick rapport, and ask them up front, &#8220;&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-40253"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51401" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>TheEncogitationer replied to the topic Ethical dilemma: Ghosting in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51398</link>
				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Nov 2023 11:31:42 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fellow Unbelievers,</p>
<p>Oh, and &#8220;ghosting&#8221; bills you&#8217;ve voluntarily assumed is a shit move, especially with Medical professionals who are oath-bound to &#8220;First, do no harm&#8221; and to sustain human life.  </p>
<p>At least make payment arrangements and pay what little you can until it&#8217;s all knocked out.  No debt lasts to infinity unless you never pay it.</p>
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				<title>_Robert_ replied to the topic Ethical dilemma: Ghosting in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51395</link>
				<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2023 23:07:13 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At any given time, I&#8217;d say 20% of daters get about 80% of the action. The people everyone wants to be with. They will ghost you and not even think about.</p>
<p>I ghosted a few girls early on, but the town was too small, and it came back to me. So better just to give them the good news, LOL.</p>
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				<title>TheEncogitationer replied to the topic Ethical dilemma: Ghosting in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51394</link>
				<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2023 18:25:25 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fellow Unbelievers,</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s just incompatibility about goals, itenerary, chemistry, or styles, then, yes, courtesy and forthright communication is a good way to deal with breaking up and going separate ways.</p>
<p>However, if someome does something that wrecklessly or deliberately deceives and harms you, you have no obligation to &#8220;telegraph your&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-40245"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51394" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>Unseen replied to the topic Ethical dilemma: Ghosting in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51392</link>
				<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2023 17:28:07 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
<a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51388" rel="nofollow ugc">Davis wrote:</a><br />
In this scenario, are you maybe doing something rude but not morally wrong? Or is it wrong?</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t think you can extricate the answer to that question from the context. Let&#8217;s see what I mean with a few examples. How would you analyze these hypotheticals if I behaved in these ways?</p>
<p>I come in contact with a woman through a dating&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-40243"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51392" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>Simon Paynton replied to the topic Ethical dilemma: Ghosting in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51390</link>
				<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2023 15:50:16 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
<a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51388" rel="nofollow ugc">Davis wrote:</a><br />
In this scenario, are you maybe doing something rude but not morally wrong? Or is it wrong?</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s reasonable to politely ask to be treated as a human being, and not an ant or a fly.  If nothing else, it might improve the other person&#8217;s behaviour in the future.</p>
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				<title>Simon Paynton replied to the topic Ethical dilemma: Ghosting in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51389</link>
				<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2023 15:38:45 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my version of evolutionary ethics, ghosting would come under the category of &#8220;unnecessary harm&#8221;.  Most of the time, people could take the time to let someone down gently and using words rather than ghosting.  So they don&#8217;t need to be causing this harm by ghosting.  They are able to give benefit rather than harm, and what&#8217;s more, they have a re&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-40240"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/#post-51389" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>Davis started the topic Ethical dilemma: Ghosting in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/</link>
				<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2023 12:10:32 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I lived in Spain, I was ghosted by about 10% of guys, though rarely after a longer exchange. Since I&#8217;ve been in Scotland, its more like 95%, many after a long chat. It has become so common, I rarely chat with locals as I simply have little faith we will ever meet or that the conversation will go anywhere. I personally find ghosting&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-40239"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/ethical-dilemma-ghosting/" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>_Robert_ joined the group The rise and rise of Islam in the UK and Europe</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/activity/p/38732/</link>
				<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2023 12:06:48 +0000</pubDate>

				
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				<title>RichRaelian posted an update in the group The rise and rise of Islam in the UK and Europe: Hello! I joined this group because I approve of the Raelian [&#133;]</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/activity/p/38730/</link>
				<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2023 06:16:54 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello! I joined this group because I approve of the Raelian version of Islam not the current one and I guess you could call me a,&#8221;Raelian Muslim!&#8221;</p>
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				<title>RichRaelian joined the group The rise and rise of Islam in the UK and Europe</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/activity/p/38729/</link>
				<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2023 06:14:29 +0000</pubDate>

				
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				<title>RichRaelian joined the group To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/activity/p/37697/</link>
				<pubDate>Wed, 31 May 2023 05:04:00 +0000</pubDate>

				
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				<title>Doug Hanlon joined the group To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/activity/p/34014/</link>
				<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2022 08:49:03 +0000</pubDate>

				
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				<title>anon_atheist_stuff joined the group To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/activity/p/27430/</link>
				<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2021 18:21:02 +0000</pubDate>

				
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				<title>Davis replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/page/2/#post-34867</link>
				<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2020 00:42:00 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Encoginator, you are assuming that life would develop on other planets the same way that it does here. The development of life is disinterested in our happiness or suffering and any mechanism which ensures the continuation of life will be ruthlessly utilised including the terrible byproduct of suffering. If life can continue, even with immense&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-25333"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/page/2/#post-34867" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>TheEncogitationer replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/page/2/#post-34865</link>
				<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2020 22:35:20 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PopeBeanie,</p>
<p>You wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>Q2: That one’s tougher, like the trolly car conundrum. I’m basically utilitarian by nature, so I’d probably say yes, move aside you miserable lot, but not loudly enough for them to hear it or anything that’s coming before we eliminate them. (There’s still a we here, in on this decision together, right?)</p></blockquote>
<p>This reminds me. &hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-25331"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/page/2/#post-34865" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>TheEncogitationer replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/page/2/#post-34860</link>
				<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2020 21:13:19 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert,</p>
<blockquote><p>Q1. I would say No. Even if you studied them, you are seeing them through your own limitations and values. It is the “prime directive” in the Star Trek series… they constantly violate it.</p>
<p>“General Order 1”, and the “non-interference directive” is a guiding principle of Starfleet, prohibiting its members from interfering with the internal&hellip;</p></blockquote>
<p><span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-25328"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/page/2/#post-34860" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>TheEncogitationer replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/page/2/#post-34856</link>
				<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2020 20:13:21 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Davis,</p>
<p>These kinds of ethical questions are always irksome.  If one doesn&#8217;t grant the premise of the question, how can one answer it?</p>
<p>Surely a species cannot live a life of complete suffering or it would be too immobilized to do life-sustaining, reproducing acts and would eventually become extinct.</p>
<p>Also, even waste products of a species have&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-25325"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/page/2/#post-34856" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>Davis replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/page/2/#post-34851</link>
				<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2020 18:45:43 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Secondary question:</p>
<p>If these creatures could indeed be re-engineered to suffer much less and yet still continue be able to somewhat adapt to this barely ever changing planet&#8230;would you consider enabling this? If you had the choice between a little less suffering (totally pointless suffering) but a tiny chance to develop intelligence would you&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-25321"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/page/2/#post-34851" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>Davis replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/page/2/#post-34850</link>
				<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2020 18:41:31 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>just because we can’t “conceive” of a way…does that necessarily preclude a path to advancement</p></blockquote>
<p>Robert that is an extremely good point (one of the few nitpicking with this scenario that is as interesting as the actual answers themselves). I would say that this would have to be part of the risk assessment formula. Even if we cannot fathom how the&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-25320"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/page/2/#post-34850" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>_Robert_ replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34849</link>
				<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2020 17:46:13 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you can positively conclude these things then I would say (Q1)Yes,(Q2)No, same logic as Kristina. Unlike the many theists, I don&#8217;t think it is wise to let people needlessly suffer. We are more kind to our beloved pets.</p>
<p>I do wonder&#8230;just because we can&#8217;t &#8220;conceive&#8221; of a way&#8230;does that necessarily preclude a path to advancement and betterment&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-25319"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34849" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>Simon Paynton replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34848</link>
				<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2020 17:13:24 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='https://atheistzone.com/members/davis/' rel="nofollow ugc">@davis</a> &#8211; organisms don&#8217;t have to have intelligence to have rights.</p>
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				<title>Davis replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34847</link>
				<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:39:42 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert we are talking about non-intelligent species and no conceivable way for them to develop intelligence. It is certainly not the same as a planet Earth were we can choose to continue living or not despite our suffering. In other words we aren&#8217;t helpless nor need the assistance of others to put us out of our misery.</p>
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				<title>Simon Paynton replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34846</link>
				<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2020 15:38:43 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point, <a href='https://atheistzone.com/members/robert/' rel="nofollow ugc">@robert</a>.</p>
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				<title>_Robert_ replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34845</link>
				<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2020 14:53:07 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Q1. I would say No. Even if you studied them, you are seeing them through your own limitations and values. It is the &#8220;prime directive&#8221; in the Star Trek series&#8230; they constantly violate it.</p>
<p><em>&#8220;General Order 1&#8221;, and the &#8220;non-interference directive&#8221; is a guiding principle of Starfleet, prohibiting its members from interfering with the internal and&hellip;</em><span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-25313"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34845" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>Simon Paynton replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34844</link>
				<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2020 12:42:17 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the grounds that we would put down a sick animal out of mercy, I would answer yes to both questions.</p>
<p>In this case, there would be a loss of scientific knowledge we could gain through studying the planet&#8217;s life.  This would be regrettable.</p>
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				<title>PopeBeanie replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34841</link>
				<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2020 00:44:18 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Q1: </strong>Assuming they love &#8220;freedom&#8221; and freedom of choice, I&#8217;d ask them to take a poll, first&#8230; secretly if necessary to not get caught by authorities they could be afraid of offending or inciting. (I think like this, e.g. in case theocratic nation sometimes gives me the opportunity to free them.)</p>
<p><strong>Q2: </strong>That one&#8217;s tougher, like the trolly car c&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-25305"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34841" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>PopeBeanie replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34839</link>
				<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2020 00:30:35 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
<a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34832" rel="nofollow ugc">Davis wrote:</a><br />
Oh dear. It seems my reply also disappeared.</p></blockquote>
<p>LOL, I&#8217;ve come late to the spam party. Awesome to see this happen.</p>
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				<title>Davis replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34837</link>
				<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2020 23:55:26 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes indeed unseen. I should have said &#8220;intelligent&#8221; and/or &#8220;self-aware&#8221;.</p>
<p>Thank you Kristina for actually answering the question. I particularly like:</p>
<blockquote><p>the preservation of life doesn’t, on its own, trump reduction in suffering</p></blockquote>
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				<title>Unseen replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34836</link>
				<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2020 21:50:20 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
<a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34813" rel="nofollow ugc">Davis wrote:</a><br />
There is zero possibility they will ever evolve sentience (or develop beyond a planet of suffering creatures).</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m a little puzzled. How do these creatures suffer at all if, indeed, they have yet to evolve sentience, given that &#8220;sentience&#8221; means &#8220;the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively&#8221; (from Wikipedia)?</p>
<p>Perhaps&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-25299"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34836" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>Kristina replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34833</link>
				<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2020 21:13:04 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first inclination is to object to some of the premises because that&#8217;s the sort of person I am. However, given the variables in place:</p>
<p><strong>Q1: Would I?</strong><br />
Yes, in this hypothetical scenario. The chief consideration is that the preservation of life doesn&#8217;t, on its own, trump reduction in suffering.</p>
<p><strong>Q2: Would resource benefits at the expense of the&hellip;</strong><span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-25296"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34833" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>--- joined the group To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/activity/p/25295/</link>
				<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2020 21:01:41 +0000</pubDate>

				
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				<title>Davis replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34832</link>
				<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2020 21:00:08 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh dear. It seems my reply also disappeared.</p>
<p>Pleasure is part of the tool box that has emerged in Earthly evolution as an aid to natural selection. For non-sentient beings I don&#8217;t think pleasure and pain are particularly balanced they both play different roles in natural selection. But there is no reason why pleasure MUST be a part of evolution.&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-25294"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34832" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>Simon Paynton replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34826</link>
				<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2020 18:51:27 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='https://atheistzone.com/members/davis/' rel="nofollow ugc">@davis</a>, you removed my entire reply lol.</p>
<p>Is not &#8220;suffering less&#8221; equivalent to &#8220;pleasure&#8221;?  Pleasure is a motivator because it indicates moving towards fitness benefits.</p>
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				<title>Simon Paynton replied to the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/#post-34821</link>
				<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2020 18:26:35 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
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				<title>Davis started the topic The torture planet in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/</link>
				<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2020 17:20:38 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So we can travel the stars. We come across a planet that has a form of life that evolved differently than us. Every single creature suffers endlessly in this world (a ghastly product of a strange evolution). Scientists have studied the hell out of them and there is no conceivable way to re-engineer them. There is zero possibility they will ever&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-25274"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/the-torture-planet/" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>TheEncogitationer joined the group To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/activity/p/24244/</link>
				<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2020 19:54:25 +0000</pubDate>

				
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				<title>Steve joined the group To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/activity/p/22570/</link>
				<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2020 18:35:39 +0000</pubDate>

				
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				<title>Ivy replied to the topic climate change sacrafices in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/climate-change-sacrafices/#post-29562</link>
				<pubDate>Tue, 24 Dec 2019 20:29:33 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would do any of the above 3 and probably even more extreme than that. But to be able to do everything I want to do would require me to move out of the US. As soon as I can I’m gone. BYE FELICIA!!!</p>
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				<title>Belle Rose joined the group To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/activity/p/20025/</link>
				<pubDate>Tue, 24 Dec 2019 20:27:44 +0000</pubDate>

				
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				<title>Davis replied to the topic climate change sacrafices in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/climate-change-sacrafices/#post-29558</link>
				<pubDate>Tue, 24 Dec 2019 00:49:05 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I prefer the alien scenario. I honestly think humanity has absolutely no hope until we either fix our genetic code or some aliens do it for us (they are far less likely to screw up when they attempt to do so).</p>
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				<title>Davis replied to the topic climate change sacrafices in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/climate-change-sacrafices/#post-29557</link>
				<pubDate>Tue, 24 Dec 2019 00:46:00 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ehhhhh. We can avoid the Earth setting on fire if we act now. Humans are too ridiculously selfish to bother. And the American government and half of Americans have always been ridiculous deniers of climate change. No&#8230;people won&#8217;t make those sacrafices and most importantly businesses wont make enough concessions (thats the serious problem) and&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-20015"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/climate-change-sacrafices/#post-29557" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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				<title>_Robert_ replied to the topic climate change sacrafices in the forum To Do or not To Do</title>
				<link>https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/climate-change-sacrafices/#post-29556</link>
				<pubDate>Mon, 23 Dec 2019 22:10:15 +0000</pubDate>

									<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
<a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/climate-change-sacrafices/#post-29555" rel="nofollow ugc">Davis wrote:</a><br />
Well…at least you answered the question lol Sounds like the perfect solution. Shall we just freeze 100 humans and wait for aliens to come visit, revive us and fix all our problems?</p></blockquote>
<p>I think we can allow for a diverse population of 100 million humans from all across the planet and the environment would still recover. It&#8217;s one &#8220;&hellip;<span class="activity-read-more" id="activity-read-more-20013"><a href="https://atheistzone.com/groups/to-do-or-not-to-do/forum/topic/climate-change-sacrafices/#post-29556" rel="nofollow ugc">[Read more]</a></span></p>
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