Reeling from Christian friend's bigotry

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This topic contains 88 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  jason 3 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #241

    Dr. Bob: Thanks. Makes complete sense. No. He’s only ever been nice to me and family. His actions speak for themselves. His words, however, just don’t make sense sometimes.

    How is it you believe in magic sky zombies still? Thank you for your reasoned perspective.

    #242

    @strega: You lucky bastard! Nine years old??? I was still getting swatted with rosaries in Catechism at 9! Growing up (and thankfully, OUT of) Catholicism was so dreary and foreboding. I used to stare in horror at the statues and artwork. I remember thinking to myself how fucking silly it all was… stand up, sit down, kneel, stand, strike your chest, bleat & repeat. I vowed to get the fuck OUT as soon as I was able. And my parents allowed this at 13. Whew! I’ve never looked back.

    I did, however, succumb to the siren song of the “god-shaped hole” in my heart when I was about 26 or so. Mostly out of wanting to get married and not really thinking ANYthing through rationally, to be honest. SO crazy (if not understandable) why we often drift back to our roots and how we were raised. THIS time, though, we were CHRISTIANS…. not CATHOLICS!! hahaha!!!

    The fear religion (Christianity, anyway) invokes is real, as you know. It’s such a scam to raise kids on all the LOVE Christianity (or much religion) espouses, only to Paul Harvey them (“The REST of the Story!”) when they have little social options left open to them… so they must accept the whole HELFIRE & DAMNATION horseshit or face a family and friend circle that has been carefully crafted to keep their curiosity & inquisitiveness in tow. What a terrible, horrific thing to do to kids. To ANYone, really.

    I’m so glad to be free — truly free — from all of that smarmy mess. Proof that, in some way, an atheist’s words, attitude, letter, conversation, book, etc. reached me somehow. So much so that I want EVERYone to see it for what it is. I can get so accustomed to thinking rationally (at least about this topic) that it’s sometimes hard to remember what being “in it [Christianity]!” was like. I was a Born Again Holy Rollin’ Pentecostal BelEEVER, brutha! and, until I could no longer account for the inconsistencies and lack of evidence for what I was told was THERE but for which I needed FAITH, I was done in, like, 3 minutes. That’s all it took. 35 years and 3 minutes! 🙂 Better than never.

    #246

    DrBob
    Participant

    How is it you believe in magic sky zombies still?

    @Mr. Tag, I don’t believe in magic sky zombies. That would be silly. 😉

    @strega has brought up the fear thing before, and I just don’t see it myself. Neither now nor growing up have I ever been afraid of God or religion in the way you suggest. Clowns, now… they can be scary.

    #247

    Strega
    Moderator

    @bob You mean you’ve never come across the threat that God/Jesus will punish anyone for their ‘sins’? Oh right, that’d be those fundamentalists you deflect to.

    I don’t find clowns scary. I find poisonous critters scary. I find your religions attempts to suppress homosexuality scary and a bit sad, really. But mostly, and unforgivably, your religions are used to scare children into compliance. “God is watching you, so don’t xxxxxxxxxx or you will have xxxxxxxx happen to you”. Unforgivable.

    #254

    Davis
    Participant

    @strega: Homophobia isn’t an inherent part of Christianity. Only extremists, morons, fundamentalists and 98.54543% of sky-zombie believers would take Christian homophobia seriously.

    Deep thinking learned wise seekers of wisdom know what the lines in the bible and other revealed texts probably actually really mean most likely.

    A man lies with another man, that is a abomination… They shall be put to death.

    Some lines in the bible mean what thy mean. This one clearly doesn’t because it doesn’t…you see? An introspective and true Christian will realise that a verse demanding the murder of ass f**king faggots is really a commentary on the divine love of family and the bonds that hold us close.

    Got it?

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by  Davis.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by  Davis.
    #261

    Strega
    Moderator

    @davis Ah, yes, he who put the Fun in Fundamentalist 🙂

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by  Strega.
    #271

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    @Tag – “His actions speak for themselves. His words, however, just don’t make sense sometimes.”

    I would suggest that your friend is passive-aggressive – “behind the smile, a knife”. Leaving you boiling with rage is an action too. But passive-aggressive people usually don’t know they are, so if you confronted him with it, he would be puzzled. It’s because something stops them expressing anger or aggression in a normal way.

    #277

    DrBob
    Participant

    @strega, poisonous critters are just critters. Some of them are cute, and many are even friendly. 😉

    Nope, I don’t “deflect to” fundamentalists, I just take the time to learn and understand different people and different groups, so as to be able to make thoughtful and rational distinctions. I admit that requires intellectual effort, patience, and a sense of fairness. So @davis quoting biblical lines for justification sola scriptura above is fundamentalist.

    But mostly, and unforgivably, your religions are used to scare children into compliance. “God is watching you, so don’t xxxxxxxxxx or you will have xxxxxxxx happen to you”.

    Are you perhaps mixing up God and Santa Claus? Making a list, checking it twice, gonna find out who’s naughty or nice… Somehow I don’t see Santa as unforgivably scaring children into compliance. At least I don’t think most children would agree with you.

    As for saying something like “don’t mouth off to your mother or you will have being grounded for the week happen to you”, that doesn’t sound terribly egregious. It just sounds like being a parent.

    Are you sure the position you’re staking out is a rationally defensible one?

    #279

    Davis
    Participant

    So @davis quoting biblical lines for justification sola scriptura above is fundamentalist.

    I have no desire to engage with your “atheist-fundamentalist” nonsense, nor your question avoiding nor your ducking and dodging anymore Dr. Bob. When I read what you type…all I hear is blah blah blah.

    #282

    Simon Mathews
    Participant

    @drbob takes want he wants from the Christian canon and leaves out what he wants. He is a cafeteria Christian. Thanks goodness for that because fundamentalists are scary. There’s no point in trying to use bible quotes to catch Bob out. He doesn’t think the Bible was written by God, only inspired by God. He says it was written by man. Therefore we are free to choose whatever we like from it. If you’re wondering what the point is of identifying with a faith only to subsequently decide for yourself which parts of that faith to honour – you’ve got me stumped.

    #283

    DrBob
    Participant

    He is a cafeteria Christian. Thanks goodness for that because fundamentalists are scary.

    I think the part you don’t understand, @simon, is that fundamentalist is not the same thing as Christian. Most Christians aren’t fundamentalists and not all fundamentalists are Christians (there are Jewish and Islamic fundamentalists).

    So it’s not that I’m deciding which parts of my faith to honor, it’s that my faith decides how it chooses to interpret the bible, since my faith is the group that compiled the thing in the first place. I can be 100% orthodox in terms of my faith while believing the bible was written and compiled by men, because that’s what my faith teaches. Religion, Church, faith, etc. are not the same thing as the bible. The bible is just a small piece, one book out of thousands. In our creeds we say we believe in God and in the Church, not in the bible.

    Again, what you all seem to embrace (and then ridicule) is biblical literalism, quoting text for Authority and Justification. You don’t seem to be atheists so much as anti-fundamentalists. You adopt the thought processes of fundamentalism (biblical quotes as authority) and even some of its argumentation style to argue against it.

    My point is that you’d be better served by being true atheists, and drop the fundamentalist way of thinking about things entirely, especially your fundamentalist thinking about religion. Embrace objective reality instead!

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by  DrBob.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by  DrBob.
    #297

    Simon Mathews
    Participant

    @drbob, if the bible is just one book out of thousands why not take the good bits of out it, put them in a new book and ditch the wretched thing. You’d think Christians would want to do this to stop silly atheists like us quoting all the nasty bits. And yet the bible is retained as some kind of special tome. You can’t argue surely that most Christians consider the Bible to be a special book. Yet they only adhere to a tiny fraction of it (good for them). Given that why not just scrap it and move on?

    #298

    The premise of the Bible – despite protestations otherwise – is faith* in magic and mysticism. There simply is no other way to avoid this elephant in the room. Consider: talking snakes, asses, & bushes and a virgin-born water-walking resurrected flying zombie whose bloody death supposedly substitutionally “atones” for mankind’s nature. To relegate belief in these to ANYthing but a complete suspension of all that is rational is intellectually dishonest. These have every mark of fairy tale and no credibility whatsoever. No word, let alone sentence, has EVER emanated from a snake, ass, or bush. This never, EVER happened. It’s preposterous to even consider it possible, let alone probable. If it’s “figurative” then this only opens up Pandora’s box of what, in that tedious book, IS or ISN’T.

    To believe in such rubbish is a waste of intellect and, I’d argue, dangerous. I agree, @SimonMathews. Why not scrap the lot, stop frightening everyone with a gruesome (and completely bogus) fate for the “sins” of blasphemy or non-belief? Let’s pull this species out of that mucked up mindset. Your faith – and faith in general – isn’t a pathway to truth, @drbob. It can’t be. If you pick and choose what to take literally or not, what to dismiss or not, you’re not exercising tenets of (your particular) faith, you’re proving that secular morality is superior to the morals often espoused in that wretchedly popular book.

    *belief w/o evidence, or despite contradicting evidence

    #300

    @drbob: maybe I knee-jerked, here. With respect, you’re doing what a lot of apologists do: playing with words. What do you mean “my faith decides how it chooses chooses to…” And “my faith is the group that compiled the thing…” And “that’s what my faith teaches.”

    It sounds like you’re casting this “Faith” as an entity. Yet, you use “faith” as if it bolsters your particular set of brliefs, too.

    I’m not trying to call you out unnecessarily, I just don’t quite follow how you separate faith into a collective ‘thing’ which (so it seems to me) is separate from you and the “faith” you use to support your beliefs.

    #302

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I’ve found a fundamental link between atheism and religion. I expect it will get me stabbed in the street one day. Where you look at the Bible and just see a load of blah, as an atheist I see something structured and meaningful. In the New Testament mainly, but it’s at the heart of all the major religions I’ve looked at.

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