The ball's in the Supreme Court

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This topic contains 25 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Unseen 1 month, 1 week ago.

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  • #52130

    Unseen
    Participant

    It’s hard to believe that one chubby billionaire reality show host and pathological liar could fuck up an entire country so badly, yet here we are.

    For most of us, I assume, the thought of keeping Trump off enough state ballots to make his presidential run impossible is tempting.

    Yet, think about it. Telling the majority of Republicans and 30-some percent of America that their first choice for President can’t be chosen. Does that even sound like the way a democracy works? You want riots in the streets? You want a ssecond great civil war? There you go.

    And—we should have seen this coming—now there’s talk in at least one state (Florida( of keeping Biden off the ballot, an idea that’s sure to spread.

    Well, the Supreme Court will be hearing the Colorado 14th Amendment case.

    What will they do? What CAN they do if they’d like to conform to the law and yet calm things down? How can they interpret the 14th Amendment in a way that’s true to the law and yet avoids the disaster described at the top.

    I’m thinking they’ll establish a due process that will keep Trump on ballots and provides a road map for how to apply the amendment. I’m thinking something like applying the it requires an act of Congress.

    What do you think?

    Jake?

    #52134

    unapologetic
    Participant

    Does that even sound like the way a democracy works? … You want a second great civil war?

    Yes that is how it legally works. “High crimes and mis-demeanors” We can’t leave the door eternally open for tyrants, out of misplaced ‘fairness’. And Rump IS getting more ‘Due Process’ than he deserves.

    I think keeping Rump out of politics has less chance of dividing the country, than letting Rump continue to divide us for personal gain.

    Putting a gag on Faux Opinion channel would go a long way to calming shit down.

     

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  unapologetic.
    #52136

    Unseen
    Participant

    Yes that is how it legally works. “High crimes and mis-demeanors” We can’t leave the door eternally open for tyrants, out of misplaced ‘fairness’. And Rump IS getting more ‘Due Process’ than he deserves.

    I’m not asking how it should work in a technical sense but how to avoid Civil War Redux. It’s a very strange situation to have a court possibly overruling the electorate by meddling in the sacred delectoral process (though they already did that with the abortion ruling).

    A couple legal eagles discussing the Supreme Court about this case and the “absolute immunity” case:

    #52137

    jakelafort
    Participant

    It will be a case of first impression. I have neither read nor heard any analysis but i took a gander over yander and the language of the 14th doesn’t pander.

    Conservative court should be strict constructionists. For that matter any court high or low ought bestow the decision whence reason flow. In reality i am afraid the Court will weasel a decision in his favor but that is only a result of lack of integrity.

    So we have this prohibition on presidential eligibility based on place of birth. I assume without having researched it was thought that a FOREIGNER was more likely to subvert the government or commit treason. Loyalty is obviously paramount in any office in which so much power is given.

    We don’t allow people to become professional anythings without getting a license. Once having earned a professional license we insist on maintenance of certain professional responsibilities the violation of which results in suspension or revocation of license.

    A special dispensation to proving worthiness to hold office carries with it the highest fiduciary obligation. Is there any position with a greater fiduciary obligation than president? Having demonstrably and brazenly violated his fiduciary duty to the citizens of the US and the constitution he swore to uphold it is insane to allow him to run.

    But what about the danger inherent in making him ineligible? Pay me now or pay me later. I prefer a mashed potato. Consequences of failure to be a nation of laws and institutions are dire especially when the heat is on. It is like civil rights that are most urgently required when the heat is on. Furthermore Trump wants to be a dictator. So it is far more sensible to stop him and his merry men before it is too late.

    #52139

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unapologetic,

    Putting a gag on Faux Opinion channel would go a long way to calming shit down.

    No fan of Trump, but you’re advocating censorship in the name of stopping a would-be dictator? And censoring a network that has probably given Atheists more of a voice than any other network? I hope you are reading your own words. The cognitive dissonance is deafening.

    And wouldn’t someone have to be indicted, tried, and convicted of insurrection to be barred from running for office under the 14th Amendment? And are you also advocating denial of due process in the name of stopping a would-be dictator too?

    The Law of Non-Contradiction is not your strong suit, is it?

    If you want to stop a would-be dictator, stripping the Executive Branch of it’s powers down to Constitutional levels is the key,regardless of who holds the office of President of the United States.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spacing
    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Misplaced word fragment
    #52142

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Jake,

    We don’t allow people to become professional anythings without getting a license. Once having earned a professional license we insist on maintenance of certain professional responsibilities the violation of which results in suspension or revocation of license.

    So a license to be President???

    I think watching the horses round the track has ruined your vertigo.

    Licensing is only good for keeping the poor and unconnected from braiding hair and word processing simple legal forms for a living. Not so much good for keeping loudmouthed demogogues out of public office.

    #52143

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Enco, i was making a point. I was not advocating licensure of presidential candidates. (But yes of course we ought to require candidates to prove they are competent to be what they aspire to be…power hungry mofos)

    Licensed contractors, docs, lawyers and we the public have recourse when they fuck up. When they fuck up and violate codes of professional ethics and responsibilities they are subject to being stripped naked and having the public pelt them with rotten banana peels never to practice again.

    Thus a de facto invisible cloak of fiduciary gumball mist envelops the president having had the luxury and good fortune of never enduring a bar exam or some similar be-all, end-all career make or break fake and take. May the gumball mist be the USA fist of outrage at the hint of treason if for no other reason than we trusted that slimey fuck. To reempower such a rapscallion and rake, scoundrel and flake is far beyond the pale of Jake.

    #52144

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Jake,

    Occupational licensure has little to do with assuring competency that can’t be addressed with tort law, but has everything to do with existing professionals using government power to supress competition from newcomers, as is the case with this North Carolina group of paralegals:

    North Carolina Nonprofit and Paralegals Sue State Over First Amendment Right to Give Legal Advice on Court-Created Forms
    Phillip Suderman · January 4, 2024
    https://ij.org/press-release/north-carolina-nonprofit-and-paralegals-sue-state-over-first-amendment-right-to-give-legal-advice-on-court-created-forms/

    Another example includes taxi cab monopolies in cities using licensure laws to attempt to ban Über and Lyft from operating on “their turf,” even though these app companies offer customers quality transportation from competent, friendly drivers, such as I’ve hired before.

    As for demogogic blowhard aspirants to the position of Commander-In-Chief, members of The Electoral College and the general public have every right to campaign and vote against them and they need no license other than U.S. Citizenship to do so. And the machines used are ballot boxes and computer CPU boxes, not gumball machines.

    #52146

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Enco, so i assume you are fine with the voters deciding?

    Then why should we care where the candidate is born?

    The parlegal’s wanting to be paid to give legal advice is an issue i knew about. It has been around i think at least two decades. But i side with the lawyers and against the paralegals. Get your law license if you want to give legal advice. There are sometimes more complex issues than meet the eye.

    The thing with cab drivers is overreaching by government. That is some BS. But hay laws go to the rich or monied interest. That is the price or one of the prices we have to pay for capitalism.

    The idea of not requiring licenses where the public is at risk is somewhere between insane and libertarian. Imagine an airline with dirt cheap airfare and new unlicensed, untrained pilots? Holy fuck. Or a woman calling herself a doctor who never went to medical school and is offering heart transplants on the cheap?

    So yea i think it is clear that if we did not have our heads up our rectums we would require presidential candidates to answer ethical hypotheticals, foreign policy hypotheticals and demonstrate the requisite knowledge of geography, history, domestic issues etc. This is to me as simple as the marijuana issue is. I was a kid and arguing how stupid our drugs laws are and one after another said well it is illegal and parroted the dumb arguments against legalization. It is just that we have not done it so it seems radical to limit eligibility to those who are competent. Manumission was once a radical idea as well. To me it is so obvious it burns a hole in my stomach.

    #52147

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Jake,

    Enco, so i assume you are fine with the voters deciding?

    Then why should we care where the candidate is born?

    Well, technically, politicians can act against the nation and give aid and comfort to enemies whether the politicians are home-grown or naturalized, but Trump is a U.S. Citizen and not (yet) barred from serving in office, so it’s irrelevant and the only course for his opponents is to campaign against him.

    The parlegal’s wanting to be paid to give legal advice is an issue i knew about. It has been around i think at least two decades. But i side with the lawyers and against the paralegals. Get your law license if you want to give legal advice. There are sometimes more complex issues than meet the eye.

    The highest law of the land is The U.S. Constitution and The Bill of Rights, so is citing these “unauthorized practice of law?”

    And aren’t legal issues complicated by the fact that attorneys and lawmakers do not speak in the vernacular of everyone else?

    The thing with cab drivers is overreaching by government. That is some BS. But hay laws go to the rich or monied interest. That is the price or one of the prices we have to pay for capitalism.

    For the umpteenth time, using law to keep some from practicing a peaceful, honest profession to benefit established professionals is not Capitalism. It is more like Syndicalism or Corprativism such as advocated by Fascist Benito Mussolini.

    The idea of not requiring licenses where the public is at risk is somewhere between insane and libertarian. Imagine an airline with dirt cheap airfare and new unlicensed, untrained pilots? Holy fuck. Or a woman calling herself a doctor who never went to medical school and is offering heart transplants on the cheap?

    There are, of course, other ways of insuring competence without coercive government licensing. Airlines obviously don’t want their planes going down in flames and dead customers don’t pay. Same likewise with hospitals and clinics. They and their constituent professions would have their own systems and protocols of qualification and impartial certifiers using previous torts and experience as a guide.

    This is a distant possibility, but with neural networking, it would not only be possible to instantly upload the knowledge of a medical procedure, but also the “muscle memory” to actually do the task, and do so with any normal functioning brain.

    So yea i think it is clear that if we did not have our heads up our rectums we would require presidential candidates to answer ethical hypotheticals, foreign policy hypotheticals and demonstrate the requisite knowledge of geography, history, domestic issues etc.

    A free, unlicensed, searching media already does this with every candidate for any public office. Recall Gary Johnson and “What is Aleppo?” 😁

    And a free, unlicensed, searching media can still serve as separaters of wheat and chaff if media consumers used the power of their Dollars as well.

    This is to me as simple as the marijuana issue is. I was a kid and arguing how stupid our drugs laws are and one after another said well it is illegal and parroted the dumb arguments against legalization. It is just that we have not done it so it seems radical to limit eligibility to those who are competent. Manumission was once a radical idea as well. To me it is so obvious it burns a hole in my stomach.

    Well, the very substance of manumission was doing the work of one’s own choice and earning one’s livelihood based upon ability to provide goods and services in the marketplace…and licensure in the U.S. was typically devised as one means of stopping the progress of the newly manumissed.

    Trump just needs his Aleppo moment and that may come sooner than we all think. Maybe if we get lucky, him and Biden both can lose.😁

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling
    #52149

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Enco, i will pass on responsing and instead pass on this video i stumbled on weak and weary upon a midnight handicapping dreary.

    #52152

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Jake,

    That’s all right. We can go back and forth on this or any subject later. I was preoccupied with this bizarre story last night:

    The mechanics of how this could be done unnoticed in a high population area like New York City is the real head-scratcher, much less the rationale of the obvious lunatic fanatics who did it!

    When the POWs in Paul Brickhill’s The Great Escape were digging the tunnels Tom, Dick, and Harry in Stalag Luft III, the biggest problems were disposing of all the dirt and and ventilating the tunnels for the tunnel diggers.

    The POWS, had to keep dirt in compartments in their pants legs, dump it as they walked, then work it into the topsoil so it was unnoticed. They had to use a giant manual-powered bellows made of wood and cloth to ventilate the tunnel so the diggers didn’t suffocate. And they had to do all this completely under the watchful eyes of the POW camp guards!

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spacing and addendum
    #52154

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Jake and Fellow Unbelievers,

    Here are more details from the Crown Heights tunnel story:

    Basically, a bunch of modern-day Zealot Lubavicher Sons-A-Bitchers who wanted to expand the Headquarters against the consent of the owners and whose tunnel jeopardized the property, safety, and lives of their neighbors.

    Again, another case of believing in absurdities and committing atrocities. It comes in all flavors and varieties.

    Cops clash with dozens of Orthodox men in synagogue as riot breaks out over secret underground tunnel
    Story by Reuven Fenton, Kevin Sheehan, Melissa Koenig, Steven Janowski • 1d
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cops-clash-with-dozens-of-orthodox-men-in-synagogue-as-riot-breaks-out-over-secret-underground-tunnel/ar-AA1mGZzw

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Addendum
    #52156

    Unseen
    Participant

    @ Enco

    Some different angles discussed here:

    #52157

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    This is an ongoing story and who knows what kind of horrible thing is happening here, but one thing is for sure:

    These jerks wouldn’t be digging tunnels and jeopardizing the property, safety, and lives of people above ground if it wasn’t for religion.

    What Unbeliever would go to the trouble of digging a hole to a house of worship they don’t want to visit in the first place?

    32 feet per second is 32 feet per second, and that’s how fast things and people fall to the center of the Earth when there’s a hole beneath them, regardless of “sincerely held religious belief.”

    Jews in Crown Heights are being their own worst enemies with things like this.

    Also, as a sidebar certainty: Legal organ sales would be between consenting adults and take place in clean, hygienic hospitals or clinics, not in filthy shit-pits with unwilling victims. And this, of course, is only until we can vat-grow replacement organs in the “body shop.”

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Addendum
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