America's longest war wasn't Afghanistan.

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This topic contains 6 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  TheEncogitationer 1 week, 6 days ago.

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  • #39454

    Unseen
    Participant

    It was the centuries long war on The Real Americans by European invaders and interlopers wanting to steal Native American land and resources. It is America’s other original sin, alongside slavery.

    The Indian Wars began with the first contacts by Spain and Portugal. They continued with vigor once the United States of America was founded and sought to expand Westward. The national military was tasked to clear the way and make the stolen lands safe for settlers, an effort that met with limited success, because the Natives didn’t want to give up the land that had been theirs since time immemorial.

    Is “genocidal” a conceptual stretch? The Nazis as far as I know didn’t offer a bounty for dead Jews, but in the U.S., bounties were paid for dead Indian scalps.

    American soldiers in uniform would ride into a Native American encampment and kill everyone. And I mean everyone. I’d be interested to examine arguments that this was not genocide by today’s standards.

    America’s Real Longest War Was the Conflict Against Indigenous Americans

    Yes, A ‘Redskin’ Does, In Fact, Mean the Scalped Head of a Native American, Sold, Like a Pelt, for Cash

    Governments Used to Pay For Native American Scalps Which Made Scalping a Booming Business

    Yes, Native Americans Were the Victims of Genocide

     

     

    #39457

    America has been at war for most of its existence.

    #39464

    Unseen
    Participant

    The history of scalping in North America.

    #39469

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Had it in my head that both the English and French instigated the scalping and paid natives for scalps. Memory is that French were first. But a cursory look at various sources suggests that both Europeans and natives had it before and independently. What a badge of honor…scalps are more convenient than bags of heads. What a species!

    #39480

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    You are correct.  The war of Europeans with Native Americans was indeed America’s longest war, albeit in broken-up pieces of time and spread out and focused upon particular tribes..

    And never let it be forgotten that it was all done for Manifest Destiny, the notion that God had blessed the European people with the North American Continental Shelf.

    To this day, Native Americans are the poorest, unhealthiest, and with the lowest life expectancies, and they are kept that way in that model of Welfare Statism known as the Reservation System.

    And old racist tropes still inform policies on the Reservation System and other policies affecting Native Americans.  Many prohibitions on alcohol on Reservations and in majority Native areas come from superstitions of how the Native Americans can’t handle “fire water” and Australians have an identical superstition about Aborigines.

    NM law bans McKinley Co. from selling liquor; company sues

    NM law bans McKinley Co. from selling liquor; company sues

    This, however, is just a Band-Aid for symptoms that doesn’t address real reasons of why Native Americans might be driven to drink and do drugs.  Being forced off your land and forced to adopt an alien language, culture, and religion would be enough to make anyone want to take a snort too many.

    As for “Original Sin,” sin belongs to the individuals who actually did it, not to those around them or who follow thereafter.  And it’s hard to pin blame in situations like this, since many Americans, myself included, have Native American in their heritage.

    As the famous punch-line says: “What’s this ‘we’ business, Kemosabe?”

     

    #39481

    Unseen
    Participant

    @Enco

    I think the original line was “What you mean ‘we,’ Kemosabe?”

    You think the reservation system is the source of their problems? Actually it was historically, but today FYI nearly 80% of all Native Americans do not live on a reservation, and most of them are “Urban Indians.” They are hardly better off than their fellows on reservations. In some ways, they are worse off by being largely cut off from their heritage and the social support they could expect there.

    When you say “Being forced off your land and forced to adopt an alien language, culture, and religion would be enough to make anyone want to take a snort too many,” that doesn’t imply a way out.

    Or is your view that if they were a competent race, like the white race, they’d just find somewhere to go without an invitation and commit their own fucking genocide on some hapless people who, hopefully, also have no immunity to the diseases they would bring with them? Just like the white people did. Can you think of such a place ready for the taking? That’s the way a Superior Race does business after all. Find some pushovers and take over.

    Up by their own bootstraps the way the invading Europeans did!

    Or do/should we live in a country where we care for each other?

    I don’t know what the solution is but moving on as if nothing happened  sure doesn’t sound like one.

    #39492

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    I think the original line was “What you mean ‘we,’ Kemosabe?”

    OK, “Ackchyually, Ackchyually…”  You got me.

    You think the reservation system is the source of their problems? Actually it was historically, but today FYI nearly 80% of all Native Americans do not live on a reservation, and most of them are “Urban Indians.” They are hardly better off than their fellows on reservations. In some ways, they are worse off by being largely cut off from their heritage and the social support they could expect there.

    Well, individuals who accomplish something great like a career or a discovery or a creation and move out of the trailer park, the slum, the ghetto, the barrio, or the reservation might say something different on whether they are better off.

    Even if they only modestly moved up, they would certainly be away from the pathologies that can prevail in those awful places.

    When you say “Being forced off your land and forced to adopt an alien language, culture, and religion would be enough to make anyone want to take a snort too many,” that doesn’t imply a way out.

    Not necessarily.  People can deal with trauma in many different ways.  I am saying that is a common way for people everywhere.

    Or is your view that if they were a competent race, like the white race, they’d just find somewhere to go without an invitation and commit their own fucking genocide on some hapless people who, hopefully, also have no immunity to the diseases they would bring with them? Just like the white people did. Can you think of such a place ready for the taking? That’s the way a Superior Race does business after all. Find some pushovers and take over.

    Competancy is an attribute of individuals, not collectives, and genocide is not something in which humans should aspire to competance.

    Now that you mention it, though, Native American tribes did fight genocidal wars with each other long before Europeans arrived.  Aztecs and Mayans in particular engaged in auto-genocide, sacrificing thousands every year and cuttting out their hearts at the orders of their kings so that their Sun Gods might be appeased and give them good fortune.

    As awful as what Europeans did, no one should shed a tear for the loss of those folkways either.

    Up by their own bootstraps the way the invading Europeans did!

    Or do/should we live in a country where we care for each other?

    “Up by your own bootstraps” means just that.  It does not mean turning your neighbor’s pelt into bootstraps.  And “up by your own bootstraps” includes training others in those ways and passing them along to family and friends, so that they aren’t a burden on you and others.  That is both self-fulfilling and as caring for fellow humans as it gets.

    I don’t know what the solution is but moving on as if nothing happened  sure doesn’t sound like one.

    And who said ignoring the problem was a solution?

    I don’t know who’s responsible for these decisions, whether it is The Bureau of Indian Affairs, the State Governments, or the Tribal Councils, but I think Native Americans deserve more than hand-outs and are capable of much more than just hosting casinos.  Free their economies and let them have other trades and industries as well.

    Abolitionist orator Frederick Douglass also had many wise words that apply to the plight of the Native American and every other human being  as well:

    Frederick Douglass–“What the Black Man Wants”

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