What about single-gender spaces?

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This topic contains 21 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  TheEncogitationer 2 months ago.

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  • #45942

    Unseen
    Participant

    Male prisoners changing gender under self-ID to ‘escape men’s jails and get access to women’

    Are female prisoners changing their gender in order to get into men’s prisons? Gee, I wonder why not?

    #45943

    Autumn
    Participant

    However this doesn’t factor in the enormously predatory nature of men and their potentially more deadly behaviour, compared with women.

    It does. I can understand a lot of people haven’t really followed the history of trans rights so they may feel this is a novel point that has simply been ignored. But this notion of predatory men sneaking into women’s spaces under the auspices of trans rights legislation is a variable that gets consideration pretty much every time. It’s a debate that gets rehashed every time.

    Legislators aren’t just ignoring the issue raised. Trans rights legislation doesn’t legalize voyeurism, sexual abuse, or sexual assault/ rape. It’s not clear why elevated concern needs to be given to spaces such as washrooms and change rooms when these are not statistically areas of elevated incidences for sexual assault. It’s not clear how denying trans rights legislation actually creates a barrier against unlawful activity in these spaces—we’re talking about someone committing a felony somehow being kept at bay by what would likely be a misdemeanour? It’s not clear how sex segregation policies would actually be enforced preventatively in most contexts, and in some of the limited contexts where it can be policed (e.g. incarceration) it’s not clear why potential sexual violence from transgender inmates requires a different consideration from the sexual violence already being perpetrated by cisgender inmates.

    With regard to inmates specifically, concerns about disingenuous claims regarding gender identity could warrant a policy specific to the situation. While such a move would likely be challenged in a court of law, applying standards such as a documented history of treatment for gender dysphoria is not intrinsically discriminatory for medical transition, so it’s not clear why it would be in the case of prison assignments.

    #45948

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I don’t see any gender as being morally superior.

    It’s not possible to compare which is “superior” to the other.  There are broad differences, that’s all.

    #45949

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    With regard to inmates specifically, concerns about disingenuous claims regarding gender identity could warrant a policy specific to the situation. While such a move would likely be challenged in a court of law, applying standards such as a documented history of treatment for gender dysphoria is not intrinsically discriminatory for medical transition, so it’s not clear why it would be in the case of prison assignments.

    This is the actual nub of the problem.  This is what needs to be tackled if we are to make progress out of the impasse.

    #45950

    Autumn
    Participant

    This is the actual nub of the problem. This is what needs to be tackled if we are to make progress out of the impasse.

    Unlikely.

    #45959

    Unseen
    Participant

    People argue that women sexually abuse other women in prison, which is true. However, if you bring in men who suddenly get trans religion into prison as well, you aren’t exactly making the vulnerable women more secure, are you?

    That some men are willing to do that to gain an advantage in prison life means we can’t rule it out in other areas where being treated as a woman would bring on advantages. Competitive sports is an obvious example. A six and a half foot male athlete with broad shoulders, the skeletal advantages afforded males, and ample musculature doesn’t suddenly become a five foot seven inch girl by becoming an actual transsexual through surgery and certainly not by becoming essentially simply a transvestite.

    How do we distinguish between the two types (sincere and insincere) and how do we deal with the sincere ones who bring outsized physical advantages with them, giving them in some cases a ridiculously outsized advantage over the “female at birth” competitors they have an advantage over.

    Perhaps making a drastic change like a gender change can’t be allowed to open every door, especially ones which are (or should be) largely irrelevant by comparison with the advantages hoped to be gained with the gender readjustment.

    #46023

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen and Fellow Unbelievers,

    As far as bathrooms go, lockable, single-user unisex restrooms are a wonderful idea. Barring electronics, which can be foiled, privacy is almost guaranteed, and they are much easier to clean and maintain the separate collective men’s and women’s restrooms.

    Having cleaned my share of both, men’s restrooms are like horse stables or even animal troughs and women’s restrooms are vastly oversized and can look like a scene from a Sam *sniff* Peckinpah film.

    If I were an architect, every one of my buildings would have rows of single-user unisex restrooms. Many back-country convenience stores were decades ahead of the game and already had single-user unisex restrooms.

    Fitting rooms for clothing stores have, in my memory, always been single-user rooms, so I see no problem there with making them unisex as well.

    Single-user jail cells and prison cells go without saying, the ACLU’s prattlings about cruel and unusual punishment notwithstanding. Single-user cells would mean fewer chances for fights, rapes, and killings, much fewer chances to form gangs or infiltrate contraband, a safer place for all concerned.

    Now, regarding other accommodations, as Frank Zappa observed, the crux of the biscuit is in the apostrophe, that is, who owns it? Perhaps Transgender persons pooling resources and setting up a network of Trans-friendly shelters would be a possibility, which is how women’s and men’s shelters originally got set up.

    The possibilities abound for settling issues like this without feeding the Culture War/Identity Politics meat-grinder. All you have to do is think.

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