When will the Feds give up on "You should never pay a ransom"?

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This topic contains 36 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Unseen 3 months ago.

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  • #37973

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    Maybe you’re ready for a cyber attack, an alien invasion, or the zombie apocalypse but the public will never follow your lead in any numbers and the government can’t just throw them under the bus in the name of a principle that works in a far more regimented society that’s nothing at all like America.

    What inspired me to learn and practice disaster preparedness was nothing as big and catastropic as any of the things you mentioned.

    For me, it went back to 1989 and Hurricane Hugo.  My area wasn’t even the main target of Hurricane Hugo, yet it damaged and destroyed homes, knocked down power lines for three weeks, knocked down trees (the latter dried in the wilderness and created wildfire hazards for years,) created flooding that carries every dangerous chemical and living thing you can imagine, and it brought out the scuzzy and scummy in human beings.

    In the mountains where I was going to college, it flooded the parking lot of an apartment complex where a friend stayed.  The water rendered every car in it’s path total-loss undriveable and broke loose a natural gas tank that floated around.  If the tank hit a loose power line, that whole block could have blown up!

    And Hurricane Hugo went all up the East Coast and didn’t break up until it reached Pennsylvania!

    All this got me to studying Survivalism and disaster preparedness in earnest and I’ve done it ever since.

    If you go over the list I showed you previously, nothing is really expensive or esoteric and every home probably has some of it already.  And the skills are easy to obtain and easy to incorporate into a daily lifestyle.

    Americans of previous generations also raised “Victory Gardens” and small livestock like chickens, quail, and rabbits during the World Wars.  That’s more involved, but not too hard and makes for a novel, nutritious diet.

    Any and all of this disaster preparedness is a small price to pay to be resilient and triumphant in the face of terrorists who will keep demanding and demanding more and more until The Land of the Free and Home of the Brave is their kept little housepet.  If they ever get all they want, we’ll really be a regimented society…followed by a regimented Big Blue Marble.

    Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan once rightly observed: “The end goal of terrorism is totalitarianism.  The totalitarian State is terrorism come to power.”

    It’s not even like disaster preparedness is asking to make the ultimate sacrifice…And if you have your preps and skills already, it won’t even cost a Buck .05:

     

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: A crucial addendum
    #37975

    Unseen
    Participant

    @theencogitationer

    Once again, good for you, but like I said, for most Americans, it isn’t going to happen.

    BUT NOW…

    I have a thought problem for you to see how consistent you are with this never deal with terrorists thing.

    You’re kidnapped by a group of masked terrorists wearing black garments with white Arabic slogans and clenched fist images. They take you to a remote ATM in the middle of the night and, having already relieved you of your wallet, they hand you your debit card and ask you to take out $500 or they will blow your head off.

    $500 isn’t that much to you but you do have that not dealing with terrorists harangue you give to other people, but now it’s you who is on the line.

    Oh, I forgot to add: they are also holding your child with a knife at his/her throat.

    What do you do? (No adding detail that wasn’t given. No reframing the thought problem. Just take it as it is and let’s see how committed you are to your principles.)

    I mean, you should tell them “Fuck you! I don’t deal with terrorists!”

    Really?

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  Unseen.
    #37978

    Unseen
    Participant

    @theencogitationer

    It gets hard when the rubber hits the road, doesn’t it?

    #37979

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    (No adding detail that wasn’t given. No reframing the thought problem. Just take it as it is and let’s see how committed you are to your principles.)

    It’s always gotta be like that with ethics class “lifeboat scenarios” doesn’t it?

    With a child involved, yes you do what it takes at the moment to keep the child safe, but there also needs to be bluff and some stra-tegery involved because terrorists can’t be trusted to refrain from future harm.   If you bluff them and do what you can to resist, you really aren’t giving the terrorists what they want.

    I’d at least note one serial number on the bills before giving it to them.  I’d remember the ATM location and note as many details about my surroundings as possible, including their auto, the itenerary, sounds and sights outside, their voices, their height, weight, how they are dressed.

    It’s pretty universal that no one likes it when people are sick or crazy.  Think of something to make you retch up your innards in the car.  (I have motion sickness, so I’ll ask to read their copy of <i>The Qu’ran</i> while they drive me to the ATM.)

    You can widen your body, blow your gut out, and struggle to create gaps in restraints,  if they keep you in the car trunk, you can kick out the rear lights, brake lights, and turn signals to call attention to other motorists and law enforcers.  From there, both myself and my hypothetical child have a better chance of getting out of this alive and free and with all data gathered, the professionals can easier bring the terrorists to justice before they do more destruction.

    There is always a choice in how to respond and that choice should be to never make it easy for thugs and tyrants.

    In the real world, everybody would be up the creek because I only maintain a nominal bank account of less than three figures just for cashing rare paper checks or money orders.  My financial instruments take other need-to-know forms.

    Also, I knew at young age how crazy the Twentieth Century was and is and what the future could be, so I decided early on not to bring children into the middle.  Leave nothing for thug bastards to hold against me and nothing for social engineers to work on.

    #37980

    Unseen
    Participant

    @theencogitationer

    There are plenty of very practical “lifeboat situations” when it comes to terrorism. In the case of cyberterrorist ransoms, they can shut down water systems, hospitals, maybe even take control of nuclear weapons.

    I think that you did, basically, an end run rather really answering my question. In as many words, I asked you not to do that.

    So, you basically didn’t really give us, all of us, an up or down answer.

    You see, the thing is, you are given to taking a hard line on dealing with terrorists.

    When push comes to shove, you go soft.

     

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  Unseen.
    #37982

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    There are plenty of very practical “lifeboat situations” when it comes to terrorism. In the case of cyberterrorist ransoms, they can shut down water systems, hospitals, maybe even take control of nuclear weapons.

    I think that you did, basically, an end run rather really answering my question. In as many words, I asked you not to do that.

    So, you basically didn’t really give us, all of us, an up or down answer.

    You see, the thing is, you are given to taking a hard line on dealing with terrorists.

    When push comes to shove, you go soft.

    I only went soft because I was trying to work within the parameters you gave:

    What do you do? (No adding detail that wasn’t given. No reframing the thought problem. Just take it as it is and let’s see how committed you are to your principles.)

    The real world is full of endless added details and to deal with them to a desired outcome, it takes reframing thoughts.

    Speaking of added details, if terrorists are going to all the trouble of kidnapping and demanding a ransom of just $500 Dollars, they obviously aren’t State actors or even State-sponsored.

    They have to be a craven, desperate, scurvy lot, probably with expensive, mind-altering, debilitating, deadly habits, and their lack of State backing is likely a source of envy, jealousy, and disunity among the terrorists.

    The terrorists in your scenario have already revealed their thumb-screw.   From there, it’s just a matter of turning it.  Once that thumb-screw is turned, no has to choose between being either a live jackal or a dead lion.  The option of being a live lion now exists too.

     

    #37983

    Unseen
    Participant

    @TheEngogitationer

    The upshot of your response is that when you aren’t dodging the question, it’s clear that there are circumstances when one is over the barrel and must deal with terrorists, right?

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