Is it time to bring back lobotomies?

This topic has 33 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 11 months ago by TheEncogitationer.

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May 13, 2023 at 5:13 pm #48224

Unseen
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What do we do with people like this:

Some monster put a kitten in a blender and switched it on and viddied it, releasing his “accomplishment” to the world. It’s a thing. It happened. I gather he’s been arrested, but what will that accomplish.

One thing we know about people who kill animals cruelly is that all too often they move on to killing humans in much the same cruel way. Not even a quick bullet to the back of the head but hours or days of unthinkable horror.

So, knowing where this sort of thing leads, do we consider a permanent solution that stops short of executing them but likely keeps them from further acting out in ever more extreme ways.

Here’s a case in point: There is a wonderful video on Netflix called “Don’t F*** with Cats” about a bunch of Internet savvy volunteer everyday people sleuths who tracked down an anonymous person who was putting up videos of cats being killed in various ways. They located him and got him arrested and charged in Peru, where he spent some time in a Peruvian lockup.

Did he learn anything? No. He moved on to killing a human. He killed, dismembered, and ate him as a masked figure on another video.

Lobotomizing this asshole would have saved a human life.

May 13, 2023 at 6:04 pm #48229
PopeBeanie
Moderator
5150, 5250, and other codes defined by law are controversial in California. I wouldn’t mind hearing from a Libertarian how they’d want to deal with citizens who are potentially a threat to society, or if they’d even care about it.

I’ve not formed a strong opinion on this kind of intervention yet, but I’m pretty sure the issue of forced lobotomies would be many times more controversial and intractable.

Could this kind of headline ever even attract serious discussion, other than here at AZ where we know the good intentions of the author? While I laughed to myself at the thought of the world becoming a better place if Putin could fit in a blender.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 11 months ago by PopeBeanie. Reason: added Putin sentence
May 13, 2023 at 10:54 pm #48232

Reg the Fronkey Farmer
Moderator

I would sooner have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.

May 13, 2023 at 11:15 pm #48233

_Robert_
Participant

What about the other ~3,799 cats killed in (US) shelters that day?

Statistics

May 14, 2023 at 3:44 am #48234

Unseen
Participant

@Robert

There are humane ways to euthanize cats and dogs such as a overdose of an opiate, though they are more expensive than the cheap ways, I imagine, such as a suffocation chamber, which has been used. One hopes blenders, wood chippers, etc., are not an option.

May 14, 2023 at 5:46 am #48235

RichRaelian
Participant

Hi! Why would you want to do that?

May 14, 2023 at 2:35 pm #48240

_Robert_
Participant

Unseen wrote:

@robert There are humane ways to euthanize cats and dogs such as a overdose of an opiate, though they are more expensive than the cheap ways, I imagine, such as a suffocation chamber, which has been used. One hopes blenders, wood chippers, etc., are not an option.

True, but irresponsible pet owners are the real cause of the year in and out pet holocaust. They act like they already had a lobotomy.

May 14, 2023 at 4:04 pm #48243

Unseen
Participant

@Robert

Humans refuse to see that we are the problematic introduced species. Though, because we are highly adaptable and resourceful, we would have sooner or later gotten to the Americas anyway, which is the argument I make regarding cats. A creature with the wild cat’s* survival skills and flexibility would have spread here eventually anyway.

The view that somehow there’s a state of nature which is ideal and must be preserved is based on the nonsensicsal idea that somehow evolution has reached a pinnacle and an ideal equilibrium had been reached which is somehow being upset by humans, cats, and other invasive species.

That’s nonsense. Evolution is ongoing. It’s a neverending process which includes the expansion of the ranges of highly successful types, and humans and cats are such types along with other examples of highly adaptable creatures such as raccoons, which are spreading (with human assistance) to Europe and Asia, carp, and lionfish.

We say, for example, that this or that species “doesn’t belong here” that they “belong in Asia (Europe, Africa, etc.).” But every species belongs where it can make a home for itself.

That is what is natural.

* Our domestic cats are simply the wild cat with some minor changes to coat and personality and the proof is that they can freely breed with wild cats.

May 14, 2023 at 4:07 pm #48244

Unseen
Participant

@All

Let’s get back to how to deal with incipient super killers.

May 14, 2023 at 5:43 pm #48252

Strega
Moderator

Incipience is a contentious measurement!

There is no system in place to catch these people before they are driven to inconceivable and horrific acts.

The point of no return is reached before anyone unrelated gets involved or there is a visible victim. I can see why Unseen considers lobotomy. It’s a mechanism to stop these fully developed psychopaths from acting out their warped urges.

Our challenge is to do two things.
1. Catch or identify children whose behaviours are indicative of serious disturbance, early enough.
2. Treat or help these children to become realigned to the norms of our society.

Both those objectives are unreachable without some kind of assessment regarding children, and some kind of viable program to effect meaningful change.

So it falls in the ‘too hard’ basket, and we revert to outrage and sympathy to deal with the consequences of these dreadful acts.

America shrugs.

May 14, 2023 at 5:49 pm #48253

Belle Rose
Participant

@Unseen

I don’t think lobotomies is the cure for that lol

May 14, 2023 at 6:28 pm #48254

Unseen
Participant

Belle Rose wrote:

@unseen I don’t think lobotomies is the cure for that lol

I do. Is your belief based on a better one? A lobotomy may take away someone’s humanity, in a sense, but what if the person is inhuman?

May 14, 2023 at 7:57 pm #48256

PopeBeanie
Moderator

RichRaelian wrote:

Hi! Why would you want to do that?

Sorry, why would who want to do what?

May 14, 2023 at 8:14 pm #48258

PopeBeanie
Moderator

Unseen wrote:

A lobotomy may take away someone’s humanity, in a sense, but what if the person is inhuman?

So far, I feel strongly that Strega’s suggestions on detection, humane treatment and prevention best illustrate the bare minimum approach we need. Focus on learning why/how some humans take this kind of dysfunctional route, before horrible acts occur. As part of a broader focus on mental health in a far-from-perfect species.

Until then, as long as we’re talking about hypothetical interventions and extremely controversial remedies, I wonder now if some kind of more humane brain implant could someday both mitigate the most seriously inhumane behaviors, while keeping the guy a happy, functional member of society? An implant that could also monitor inform us about the dysfunction and the device’s neural interventions.

May 14, 2023 at 8:17 pm #48259
Unseen
Participant
PopeBeanie wrote:

RichRaelian wrote:

Hi! Why would you want to do that?

Sorry, why would who want to do what?

I think the Pope is being a little theatrically dense. He clearly is asking why a government would want to protect its subjects by nipping a homicidal sociopath’s career of torture and murder before it could come to fruition.

Clearly someone who could blend a live kitten has a serious lack of empathy and such people often go on to act out on human beings.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 11 months ago by Unseen.
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