Are our attitudes toward pedos actually endangering our children?

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This topic contains 85 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Unseen 21 hours, 25 minutes ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 86 total)
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  • #45725

    Unseen
    Participant

    Have you ever heard of “minor attracted persons”?

    It’s the notion that “minor attracted person” is a better term than “pedophile,” a term that carries with it tons of baggage. Baggage of revulsion and hatred that can rise to the level of murder. More than one pedophile has been murdered out of hatred.

    The question is, how much of it is deserved?

    Suppose pedophiles are born, not made. That actually seems to be the case. Like gays and lesbians, alcoholics, left-handed people, tongue rollers, and heterosexual “straights,” it seems pedophiles are born this way. In that sense, we may have to accept on a logical if not emotional basis that pedophilia is one of the basic sexual orientations, but one like another genetic trait, a tendency to alcoholism, that needs to be managed and controlled to protect the community, for a practicing pedophile like an out of control alcoholic can cause great harm.

    If you’re still not convinced it’s genetic and a basic sexual orientation, then I ask you how people become pedophiles? Are they normal straights or gays who one day decide to be attracted to children? No matter what your attitude toward pedophilia you have to see the absurdity in that. Most of them will tell you that they’ve never not been attracted to minors.

    These considerations are what’s behind the proposed—and still controversial—idea that we need to relabel the condition to take away or at least reduce the baggage associated with the term “pedophile.”

    BTW, it’s strange but true that not all sex offenders of children are pedophiles. In some cases, it’s just a garden variety rape, which is almost always about power not sex, but inflicted on a minor by accident of opportunity.

    Also, contrary to the impression the two following TedX talks may leave you with, not all pedophiles are male. While certainly a minority, females are not magically immune to pedophilia. If you doubt me, just google on “female pedophiles” and you’ll discover that it’s a “thing.”

    Why are some clinicians getting behind the “minor attracted person” description. Well, you may not know it but a great number of pedophiles control their inclinations, never offending, and their difficulties could better be dealt with if they could admit their problem without their therapist judging them or, worse, having to turn them over to authorities. The dysfunction of laws requiring therapists to betray their clients should be obvious.

    Complicating the situation are those at the crazy end of the pedophile spectrum who see the new designation as somehow normalizing pedophilia and validating their proclivities, which is far from what the proposed new language is intended to do.

    Finally, how can we as a society help pedophiles keep themselves from acting out? Right now, naming and shaming seems to be the primary approach. Can we give them something safe to act on, for example? Masturbation material? How about letting them watch child porn, maybe made using today’s hyper-realistic computer imagery(?).

    Anyway, after viewing the vids (or at least one of them), what are your thoughts?

    #45727

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Pedestrian Ted talk walks the walk. No topic is verboten.

    I assume that churches are the first choice of minor attracted persons who intend to act out on their feelings. Kindergartens, nursery schools, daycare not bad choices either. It is so fucking taboo that no politician could
    survive if they used Unseen’s words on this topic. It is innate? IDK i guess that makes sense. Would children be safer if the topic and act did not cause such revulsion and rational ways to satisfy urges were promulgated. I would assume so. Imagine how such a person would hide their ownership and delivery of a little kid sexbot? Holy fuck.

    #45728

    jakelafort
    Participant

    One of the speakers opined that 1 to 2 percent are in this category. I’ve read that 1 percent are asexual. So if ya want to conceive a rare bird ponder an asexual with romantic but asexual feelings towards little kids. Aint that some shit?

    #45729

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    If you’re still not convinced it’s genetic and a basic sexual orientation, then I ask you how people become pedophiles? Are they normal straights or gays who one day decide to be attracted to children?

    They could be imprinted by abuse at a vulnerable age.  That’s a double whammy of abuse.  Either way, it’s not their fault.  But they still have the choice whether to act on their inclinations.

    #45730

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Simon one of those speakers said same thing…ya can’t control how you feel but you control your actions. Ya really believe that? In all instances? Can an OCD sufferer truly control those goddamn repeating behaviors? Aspergers? Tourette’s?

    Ever been past point of no return in a rage? I have. Punched threw a wall two separate occasions. And i am an easy going guy. I really am.

    #45731

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Ya really believe that? In all instances?

    I used to know someone like that.  They had an appalling history of abuse against them from all sides, and admitted a consequent attraction to children, but said they weren’t ever going to repeat the abuse on someone else.

    #45732

    Unseen
    Participant

    If you’re still not convinced it’s genetic and a basic sexual orientation, then I ask you how people become pedophiles? Are they normal straights or gays who one day decide to be attracted to children?

    They could be imprinted by abuse at a vulnerable age. That’s a double whammy of abuse. Either way, it’s not their fault. But they still have the choice whether to act on their inclinations.

    “Imprinting”? Is that an actual documented “thing”? I think when a person who’s been abused grows up and abuses, that generally happens in a family context, doesn’t it? Which brings us back to a possible genetic connection.

    #45733

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    “Imprinting”? Is that an actual documented “thing”?

    It may or may not be documented, but it happens in real life.  I know of three cases.

    My friend was sold to a paedophile ring by their father, so for them, it wasn’t all in the family.

    #45738

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Imprinting is the term coined by Konrad Lorenz. Goslings imprinted would follow him like mama duck.

    Perhaps pedophilia is like psychopathy in that a cluster of genes gives the lucky lottery winner proclivities. Whether those manifest depends on nurture.

    I wish that there were a massive scientific endeavor to get to the root of susceptibility to religious indoctrination. It would be an aid in the cause.

    #45739

    Unseen
    Participant

    Simon one of those speakers said same thing…ya can’t control how you feel but you control your actions. Ya really believe that? In all instances? Can an OCD sufferer truly control those goddamn repeating behaviors? Aspergers? Tourette’s? Ever been past point of no return in a rage? I have. Punched threw a wall two separate occasions. And i am an easy going guy. I really am.

    One thing is true, though, and that’s that a pedo on the brink of acting out is less likely to act out if he’s revealed his problem to a therapist and is getting help.

    #45740

    Unseen
    Participant

    “Imprinting”? Is that an actual documented “thing”?

    It may or may not be documented, but it happens in real life. I know of three cases. My friend was sold to a paedophile ring by their father, so for them, it wasn’t all in the family.

    And your friends became pedos themselves after being abused? How is it you know so many?

    #45741

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    And your friends became pedos themselves after being abused? How is it you know so many?

    One of them.  The others were imprinted in other directions.

    Apart from that, I’m not going to discuss real people on the internet, any further.  I’ve already said more than I would normally say to my closest friends.

    #45744

    Unseen
    Participant

    And your friends became pedos themselves after being abused? How is it you know so many?

    One of them. The others were imprinted in other directions. Apart from that, I’m not going to discuss real people on the internet, any further. I’ve already said more than I would normally say to my closest friends.

    Great, but I don’t think I know any pedos in my small circle of friends. I don’t even have any suspicions.

    #45748

    Autumn
    Participant

    There isn’t necessarily a singular pathology for why people actually have sex with/ rape* children and youths, or why they want to even if they don’t act on it. There are reasons people engage in sexual activity beyond sexual attraction. There are also reasons people can form romantic/ sexual attachments beyond some primal reproductive instinct.

    Regardless, to be so much as caught with child pornography is a good way of flushing your life down the toilet. So it’s difficult to believe anyone whimsically decides to go down that path in the way they might choose one flavour of ice cream over another. There may be some cases where underlying psychological issues drive a desire to be intimate with minors. And there may be cases where that form of attraction the person’s innate disposition. In the former case, maybe there is something that can be done. In the latter case, that’s bound to be a shitty existence.

    I do think society’s moral outrage is overplayed. Obviously protecting children matters. I don’t think there are a great many people who would argue adults should be able to engage sexually with pre-pubescent children. Most would probably want the legal age of consent to fall somewhere between 16-21 (if I had to guess 18, would be the most common number). But on top of justified concern, there seems to be a tendency to take things one step further, like a type of virtue signalling to prove who can be the most repulsed by one of the least controversially repulsive behaviours.

    At some point it possibly becomes counter productive creating a significant barrier to those seeking help and support with managing their attractions without offending as well as those willing to provide therapy and support. And if potential solutions in the form of written erotica, AI generated assets possibly including VR, illustrations could hypothetically help people reduce their urges, those solutions are likely going to be rejected due to moral outrage before any solid data can be generated on their efficacy.

    I do get it. Intuitively, this is a problem I wish would just go away magically. I’d like for children to never have to worry about this sort of thing nor to suffer sexual abuse. So anything even tangentially related to such abuse is something I reflexively have a negative reaction to. And that’s probably exacerbated by a socialized urge to want to distance myself from the sexual abuse of minors as much as possible. That in turn is further exacerbated by being 2SLGBTQ+ because we’re already constantly accused of being pedophiles for no fucking reason at all. Selfish though it may be, I just don’t want the stink of it on me. Basically (and possibly hypocritically), I don’t want to be treated the same way I’m either naturally or conditioned to treat people who have such attractions.

    But there is a time to get over ourselves, set aside our moralized gag reflex and question whether we are providing real options to reduce suffering, reduce potential for harm, and increase the odds of having a healthy existence for as many people as possible in this scenario.

    #45749

    Autumn
    Participant

    I put in an asterisk and never added the note.

    *sex with children/ minors is always rape, but I don’t think everyone attracted to minors is seeking to commit acts of sexual violence against them even if that’s what acting on those urges would result in. Maybe it’s a pointless distinction.

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