College presidents are resigning or being shit-canned over this

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

See my citation of John McCarthy’s documentary above. Not biblical, solely evidence-based.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Enco, i think you’ve missed the point of Oren’s video. He is simply dispelling the many lies that support the progressive pro-Palestinian narrative and identifying obstacles to a peaceful and more humane middle east. Only thing he leaves out is the allegation of Israel being an apartheid state. Does a wonderful job of it too. Demonstrates again and again the double standards, one for Jews and the other for a contrived history which fails to utilize the same scrutiny and standards.

He is absolutely not utilizing biblical/religious text or principles to justify anything. He cites the bible and koran to demonstrate that the current Israel is the land of the ancient Jews and also that Jerusalem is not in fact of primary importance in Islamic history. Conversely there is no indication at all of a people back in the day known as Palestinians. Covers subsequent history of that region as well. In fact and i keep reading/hearing the following: Palestinians are a recent name given to people who migrated to the land of Palestine to work for the British during their mandate and or other Arabs who lived there.

Which side has it right is very significant because the pro palestinian narrative is as i see it the modern blood libel. The far left is despicable in their shameless adoption of a story that perpetuates antisemitism. Never again? It is more like we shall see about that. It is better when the haters are open and not hiding behind stories.

[UnseenParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

No enslavement in Egypt, no 40 years in the Sinai Peninsula, no mass migration to or conquest of “The Holy Land.”. Hence the Hebrew Israelites never left the area. They have as much claim as anyone else living there.

I’m not interested whoever was there first arguments. Obviously, using that sort of logic, we’d have to give the Americas back to the Native Americans and they’d have to make a trek back toward Mongolia in order to give the land back to the mammoths, mastodons, ground sloths, saber-toothed “cats,” and the rest.

For me, it’s the displacement of the Palestinian* people living in what is modern day Israel that was criminal. They had lived where they were living to have “squatter’s rights” in spades, and the U.N. had no right, to my mind, to tell Euopean Jews to just go in and take their homes away and force them out.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Jake,

I fully agree with the case Oren makes with facts.

I just think citing The Holy Bible and Al-Qu’ran even as historical sources puts him needlessly on shaky ground when Archeology, Anthropology, and Genetics are available, evidence-based, and better for making his case.

A right position wrongly argued is no service to that position.

It’s true on many good positions. It makes me grit my teeth to hear fellow Libertarians use “The Boiling Frog Argument.”

I always scream at the screen: “Damnit! It’s only the tadpoles that live in the water and they don’t have the legs to escape! Full-grown frogs don’t stay in water, no matter what the temperature! They have more sense than humans in that respect!”

Between gritting my teeth from nonsense and binges on Vitamin C drops during the Pandemic, my teeth are shot!

The only good thing about it is I never really had the best of teeth without untold expense and I’m doing creative destruction and making way for the Dental Superior!

I may even make a special request to the Dentist to play Deodato’s cover of Also Sprach Zarathustra and throw his pliers in the air when the work is done. 🛠🦷👨‍🔬😁

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

I’m not interested whoever was there first arguments. Obviously, using that sort of logic, we’d have to give the Americas back to the Native Americans and they’d have to make a trek back toward Mongolia in order to give the land back to the mammoths, mastodons, ground sloths, saber-toothed “cats,” and the rest.

Dumb, and especially extinct, animals obviously have no legal or moral standing vis-a-vis humans, but otherwise, Robert and myself have pointed this out to Davis to no avail.

For me, it’s the displacement of the Palestinian* people living in what is modern day Israel that was criminal. They had lived where they were living to have “squatter’s rights” in spades, and the U.N. had no right, to my mind, to tell Euopean Jews to just go in and take their homes away and force them out.

One, Jews had a small presence in “The Holy Land” even after The Diaspora, and Jews who migrated to “The Holy Land” did so from Asia, Africa, The Americas, and Europe and did so since the inception of the Zionist Movement and The Balfour Declaration, long before there was a United Nations.

And the United Nations has long been an enemy of Israel and the U.S. and Western values of Individual Rights, Limited Government, and Free-Market Capitalism, making countless hundreds of Resolutions against them, as the activism of videos and Web content by U.N. Watch demonstrates repeatedly:

https://youtube.com/shorts/-cB926lxvN8?si=14qzioD9e8rcXq6h

U.N. Watch YouTube Channel
https://youtube.com/@unwatch?si=VcS0dizjEeduxMQy

(My only complaint about U.N. Watch is that they actually believe in the U.N. and the U.N. Charter and think this rat’s nest of criminals and tyrants funded by the U.S. taxpayers should somehow be redeemed instead of defunded and expelled from our midst.)

[jakelafortParticipant]

Yeah Enco, the where they lived or who was there first argument is nonsense. But if you are going to use it the Jews win that argument.

The poor Palestinians who were displaced by the UN is nonsense. Concomitantly hundreds of thousands of Jews were thrown out of their homes and nations all over the middle east. But somehow it only counts with the Palestinians. Jews being hosed is de riguer. On top of that Jews were expelled over and over all through their history and ultimately there was a final solution proposed and enacted. Very few gave a shit. I am reading Abandonment of the Jews by i don’t know the author. It is fucking unreal or surreal in its depiction of a kafkaesque reality. Furthermore if the Arabs had accepted the deal instead of being intransigent and wanting ALL of it and continuing to want all of it problem solved. If Arabs thought like Jews and had a sense of common plight and history and culture there would be no issue because the occupied people would have homes. And as that guy in the video indicates there are consequences when you attack and lose. Instead you have Palestinian refugees not even granted citizenship in Arab nations but nobody gives a shit unless the perceived oppressors are Jews. The antisemitism is so obvious.

As far as i am concerned both Arabs or Palestinians and Jews back in the day had legit reasons to want their own nations. It was a time of nationalistic movements and that was true in Palestine too. So what the Brits did was i think better than simply chew and screw and let the Arabs and Jews fight it out. I mean it would have taken some prescience to know how it would all go down. And would it have been better if the two sides just fought? It was a better more just and less barbaric basis for generation of a nation than the typical be conquered, rape yo momma, and this shit is ours.

What has happened to so many innocent Palestinians is a tiny footnote in history but a terrible tragedy nontheless. Similarly the Hamas attack in Israel is a tiny footnote and tragedy. But i don’t think much is gonna change in a positive way unless Palestinians get a leader whose head is not entrenched in his own sewage system. I am sure there is some BS ya could pluck from the Koran to justify being reasonable and getting along with your neighbors. Be peaceful and have peace. That is the longshot. More likely the pro Palestinian narrative is going to be augmented with evil zionist Jew oppressors and more of the same Jihad. When that Islamic shit is paramount aint no chance for nothing good.

I guess as this tragedy is playing out it is good for news media. Ukraine/Russia? That is old hat and not nearly as captivating. Play by play and questioning every move by Israel could only happen with Jews. Is there any doubt that if the Arabs had the power…lets say they had won their 48 war of aggression to end Israel and they were close to doing so…and not all Jews were exterminated but instead just subjugated that they would not have citizenship in Palestine? No matter how bad the oppression from the Arabs it would not even be newsworthy. It is only in Israel with Jews that the very right to exist would be questioned ad nauseum. It is only in Israel with Jews that the most blatant hypocrisy and double standards would be affirmed and reaffirmed and become sacrosanct. It is so bad that it is nearly a religion.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Jake,

Yeah Enco, the where they lived or who was there first argument is nonsense. But if you are going to use it the Jews win that argument.

By itself, you are correct that mere presence on real estate is not sufficient to establish a claim.

However, presence is a necessary condition for Lockean mixing of labor and thought with previously unowned or unclaimed objects of nature to make them your own.

The Jews win here as well. The Brits granted them the swampiest and most desolate desert areas of “The Holy Land” and the Jews drained the swamps and irrigated the desert. They made the desert bloom and thus Bloom’s.

(Sorry, I couldn’t resist the pun. I’ll let myself out. I’ll be here all week. Tip the waiter. Try the Vegan Veal. 😁)

I am reading Abandonment of the Jews by i don’t know the author.

What??? Don’t they print the author’s names on dust jackets anymore? Or has publishing gone totally Collectivized and it’s all one big anonymous pot of Shmoo Stew that eats itself while being eaten? Harvard President Claudine Gay evidently thinks so…

And reading a book when you don’t even know the author”s name sounds like the makings of a Country song, if it also includes drinkin’, cheatin’, killin’, and/or goin’ to Hell. 🤠

Seriously, if you mean this book by David S. Wyman, it sounds like both interesting and necessary reading:

The Abandonment of the Jews–Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Abandonment_of_the_Jews

Yehuda Bauer’s A History of the Holocaust and Sir Martin Gilbert’s many voluminous works on the subject are necessary reading as well, though only in digestible doses. There was a Professor at my college who taught a course on Holocaust Literature in the English Department and she had to stop for her own mental well-being it was so traumatic.

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