Finite Number of Possible Books

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  • #8431
    _Robert_
    Participant

    I had a conversation with another engineer. He said there is a finite number of possible books that can be written. The possible ways of combining letters into words and onto pages is limited. That really struck me. Does that also mean that knowledge is finite? Then I figured that language evolves, new words are being created all the time and eventually we may need a larger alphabet. What do you think?

    #8433
    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Does that also mean that knowledge is finite?

    – we can draw pictures too, to express ideas.  We can invent new phrases.

    #8451
    Strega
    Moderator

    Finite, but how extensive?  If you have a small bucket and a large, but finite ocean to empty, perhaps finite isn’t the limit that it seems to be

    #8455

    @Robert – What if I was to write a book about every number, starting with a book about the number “1” and finishing with a book about the number……..?? Let’s call it “N+1″.

    Perchance to dream of typewriters and bananas……

    #8456
    Strega
    Moderator

    @regthefronkeyfarmer we totally need a ‘like’ button!

    #8460

    ….and….if you only used only odd numbers you would still be able to write the same number of books that you could write if you used both even numbers and odd numbers……

    ……and exit stage left….:-)

    #8462
    Strega
    Moderator

    ^^…hastily

    #8463
    Davis
    Participant

    If you took a 10×10 chess board and randomly decided which squares were black and white (you can have more of one color than another if you want) … the amount of possible chessboards you could create is so large … we cannot possibly comprehend the enormity of that number. From our limited human experience … the number might as well be infinite. Thats the result of taking a simple binary variable (black or white) in a string of only 100 of them. It’s an extremely small string of variables but the combinations end up being within the range of all the particles in the known universe.

    With books we bump up the variables and strings. With letters you have 26 possible variables per string, and the strings can go on for say, upto 1000 pages (assuming that’s as big a a book should be). Factor out the nonsense words and the amount of possible books is so far higher than our chess board number … it pretty much is infinity. By the end of a large sentence you already have as many possible strings as a modified chess board. That’s sentence 1 of say 33 sentences per page and upto a 1000 pages. The number of comprehensible meaningful books…is so high…if every human who ever existed on Earth read all those possible books for a million years, you’d have read less than a trillionth of a trillionth of a trillionth (etc) of all the possible books. If everyone made 100 clones of themselves and populated the universe and they all read these books, we’d only make an ever so slightly larger dent. We’d have to clone ourselves again and again until the point that there are no more molecules left in the universe for anything else…and even then we really haven’t read a lot of the possible books out there. We’d have to somehow burst open some hole in time and space and go to alternate universes (if they exist) and populate all of them with book reading humans. I suppose if our clones kept cloning themselves and convert universe after universe into factories of book reading humans….eventually…once you have fully done that with say an octillian octillian octillian octillian (to the power of a very high number) universes…you might have read about 0.1% of all possible books.

    As for knowledge, if it has to be realized and stored in the form of human language…the limits of knowledge about the universe would be limited only by the number of people who can study it and the amount of parallel universes we can crack open and covert into human knowledge learning factories.

    (all of this assumes the universe is limited to some extent. If it wasn’t…we’d never learn everything cause there would always be some place we’ve never been to).

    So our numbers might as well be infinite. The possible books we can make is virtually endless, physically impossible to print, unable to be read within the confines of our enormous universe and would require an utter destruction of almost everything that exists to even print out an index of the titles of all of those books. Knowledge is even worse because there is no page limit to knowledge and the amount of angles you can view something from, and the concepts to propose and play with and how that knowledge all interrelates (with intercontextuality) makes that quantity of books look like a tiny library.

    The books and knowledge isn’t infinite…but it might as well be.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Davis.
    • This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Davis.
    #8466
    _Robert_
    Participant

    Man I got a lot of reading to do… Languages also have a lot of redundancy. In electrical transmission of bits we often add extra bits that are coded to help recover transmissions in noisy environments.

    #8467

    Hmm, so you could start with a book on wavelet packet filtering to help in denoising your environment. There could be an infinite range of non-linear algorithms written to recover any chaotic signal loss? Wavelet shrinkage problems could keep me awake all night! Where do all the lost packets go?

     

    #8471
    Old Account
    Participant

    I think the number of possible books written, is less important than the number that I can read.  And the number that are worthwhile.  And the number that can make a difference.  When I peruse Amazon or Audible, it’s hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.  Life is too short to read the chaff, and also to short to miss out on something really good.

    #8472

    No chaff here Daniel W. I have these on my “Already Read” bookshelf.

    The Orphan Master’s Son by Adam Johnson (Pulitzer Prize 2013).

    The Hotel New Hampshire by John Irving.

    Sula by Toni Morrison (Nobel Prize for Literature).

    The Sea by John Banville (Booker Prize winner).

    The Book Thief by Markus Zusak.

    #8473
    Old Account
    Participant

    @regthefronkeyfarmer, nice list.  I think I read Hotel New Hampshire about 30 years ago.  Sometimes, I think I should read more of those old classics.  Thanks to your recommendation, I just bought “The Orphan Master’s Son”.  Some that I have liked –

    Off for the Sweet Hereafter by TR Pearson.

    almost anything by Jerzy Kosinski, especially The Painted Bird and Being There.

    1491 and 1493 by Charles Mann.

    King Leopold’s Ghost by Adam Hochschild.

    Guns, Germs, and Steel, by Jared Diamond.

    The Slave Ship, by Marcus Rediker,

    Slavery by Another Name, by Douglas Blackmon,

    and currently reading “Why Buddhism is True, by Robert Wright.

    I admit, I read some these days by audiobook, and of those listen several times.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Old Account.
    • This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Old Account.
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