Hey, Little Punks! Get Off Lady Liberty's Lawn!

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Fellow Unbelievers,

It made me feel so old to say that, but this story brought it out of me:

Misgendering Should Be a Crime, According to Millennials
BY JAMES BICKERTON ON 7/15/23 AT 1:07 PM EDT
https://www.newsweek.com/misgendering-should-crime-according-millennials-1813178

Look, Goddamnit! Libertarians had the right idea about mental and bodily sovereignty and the Individual Rights of LGBTQ+ long before any of these kids were somebody’s mistake! And we Libertarians didn’t need to “evolve” our position like Obama or build a separate “Log Cabin” like the Republicans.

Where do these spoiled bastards get off wanting to make a crime out of mere words accidentally said to me at work at least once a week and mere words I accidentally say to babies and toddlers almost daily?!?

Every week, some old duffer refers to me as “Ma’am” because he or she evidently acts on the old assumption that cashiering is woman’s work.

Do I take offense? No. Either the duffer self-corrects or I gently correct and I always say: “Don’t worry. This isn’t a college campus” and a friendly chortle is shared by all.

Every day, I’ll talk to the babies and toddlers parents bring with them and sometimes I will accidentally call a he a she or vice-versa. Rather than take offense, the parent gently corrects me, I politely reset, and I continue the friendly patter with both.

Occasionally, I’ll meet someone in my line I’m not real sure about on sex or gender.

Without a single pause or missing a beat, I ring their order, ask if they need double-bagging or a protection plan or assistance loading, tell them their total, tender payment, give change and a receipt, and wish them a safe and great day.

The only Rainbow color that matters in retail is Green and the only symbol that matters is the Dollar Sign. And in a very busy store, the only immutable trait anyone has is Blur.

If all this is not sufficient for everyone to be left alone to live their lives without literal Language Police, Millennials and Zoomers are going to have a serious problem on their hands. If they are lucky, it may only involve sitting in a corner or turning over a knee behind a wood-shed.

• This topic was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling

[AutumnParticipant]

A lot of people seem to make fuzzy distinctions between something being unlawful and being criminal. Even the article itself flips between ‘criminal’ and ‘illegal’. Many people here in Canada think misgendering is criminal (conservative and progressive alike), but it’s not. It’s not even illegal, though discriminatory harassment is under certain circumstances.

Where do these spoiled bastards get off wanting to make a crime out of mere words accidentally said to me at work at least once a week and mere words I accidentally say to babies and toddlers almost daily?!?

It’s unlikely that’s what people want to criminalize/ make unlawful. That’s like saying the criminalization of assault is there to criminalize accidentally bumping into someone or stepping on their toe.

If all this is not sufficient for everyone to be left alone to live their lives without literal Language Police, Millennials and Zoomers are going to have a serious problem on their hands. If they are lucky, it may only involve sitting in a corner or turning over a knee behind a wood-shed.

I hope to never visit the weird little fantasy land in which you dwell.

[UnseenParticipant]

Under U.S. law this is what these related terms mean:

An unlawful act is one not approved by law, but not necessarily against the law, either. It could be a civil wrong, or an offense that no one would consider particularly blameworthy, such as overparking.

An illegal act is a violation of law, but even this term can apply to civil offenses.

Illicit carries a strong connotation of immorality, and criminal denotes punishable wrongdoing.

The source for the above is here.

 

[RichRaelianParticipant]

Hi! Try saying that to a indigenous individual that sets up or pitches a tent there.

[DavisModerator]

Marginalised people should be left alone to live our lives. We should not be driven, by the words of others into:

Being told we are less human
Bullied during school into suicide
Encouraging others to take our rights away
Normalising abuse and discrimination against us
Being openly doubted when we are demonstrably hurt and discriminated against

If extreme hate speech leads to violence, abuse, discrimination and the denigration of our rights, why would the government not do something about it. Sounds like you care more about people having the right to say whatever harmful shit they like over marginalised people being free to live their life in safety and equality.

[_Robert_Participant]

No doubt, gender roles where a key aspect of early human development and survival, same as with almost every other living thing. Gendered languages are proof of that. It’s going to take time to ditch primaeval trappings now that gender roles are starting to have diminished utility. It may even be similar to the utility that early religion provided. Science is supplanting that utility now, but damn it’s a slow process to a single human lifetime.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Autumn,

A lot of people seem to make fuzzy distinctions between something being unlawful and being criminal. Even the article itself flips between ‘criminal’ and ‘illegal’. Many people here in Canada think misgendering is criminal (conservative and progressive alike), but it’s not. It’s not even illegal, though discriminatory harassment is under certain circumstances.

If it involves any kind of Government sanction or punishment, it is a distinction without difference to the one getting the sanction or punishment.

It’s unlikely that’s what people want to criminalize/ make unlawful. That’s like saying the criminalization of assault is there to criminalize accidentally bumping into someone or stepping on their toe.

Little Punks who go on “Feelz Over Realz” will not make such a differentiation, and for the accused, the process of making the differentiation will become part of the punishment.

I hope to never visit the weird little fantasy land in which you dwell.

I’m trying to teach these kids as painlessly as possible.

In the real world, though it’s sadly rarely enforced, Title 42 of U.S. Criminal Code makes conspiracy to violate Constitutional Rights a Felony punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment or, depending on the severity of the violation, life imprisonment or death.

Something to give the little hooded bat-wielders pause for thought.

[UnseenParticipant]

Intentional disgendering as a form of bullying or abuse should not be tolerated…socially. I think the brain police need to stay out of it, though. And especially if someone’s gender lacks any sort of specificity.

Misgendering, if it’s unintentional, is not a crime socially and certainly should not be legally.

But let’s keep government out of it as much as possible.

[AutumnParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

If it involves any kind of Government sanction or punishment, it is a distinction without difference to the one getting the sanction or punishment.

Discriminatory harassment should remain unlawful.

Little Punks who go on “Feelz Over Realz” will not make such a differentiation, and for the accused, the process of making the differentiation will become part of the punishment.

This is fear mongering nonsense over a law that won’t exist, and even if it ever did manage to make it into legislation would be overturned with the first case to reach a higher court. The most aggressive statute in the US I am aware of to date is New York’s anti-discrimination legislation which does not make accidental misgendering a fine.

I don’t know if you should be tossing around “Feelz Over Realz” since it’s kind of your m.o.

Something to give the little hooded bat-wielders pause for thought.

It’s like you live in a comic book where you’re Batman and everyone you’ve decided you don’t like is a nameless thug that exists to get biffed and kapowed by your mighty fantasy logic.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Davis,

Marginalised people should be left alone to live our lives. We should not be driven, by the words of others into:

Being told we are less human
Bullied during school into suicide
Encouraging others to take our rights away
Normalising abuse and discrimination against us
Being openly doubted when we are demonstrably hurt and discriminated against

And none of those were the subjects questioned about in the survey in question. Strawperson Army destroyed.

If extreme hate speech leads to violence, abuse, discrimination and the denigration of our rights, why would the government not do something about it. Sounds like you care more about people having the right to say whatever harmful shit they like over marginalised people being free to live their life in safety and equality.

What it sounds like to you and what it is are two different things.

Obviously, you didn’t read that I gladly accept correction on the sex of babies and toddlers and I give no different customer service regardless of sex, gender, or orientation. So you mischaracterized my position on misgendering.
♀️=♂️=⚧️ 😁

[AutumnParticipant]

Autumn wrote:

TheEncogitationer wrote:

If it involves any kind of Government sanction or punishment, it is a distinction without difference to the one getting the sanction or punishment.

Discriminatory harassment should remain unlawful.

Little Punks who go on “Feelz Over Realz” will not make such a differentiation, and for the accused, the process of making the differentiation will become part of the punishment.

This is fear mongering nonsense over a law that won’t exist, and even if it ever did manage to make it into legislation would be overturned with the first case to reach a higher court. The most aggressive statute in the US I am aware of to date is New York’s anti-discrimination legislation which does not make accidental misgendering a fine.

If this survey is indicative of anything, it’s probably the following:

i) In the pendulum over wedge issues, the right pushed too far recently and now it’s time for the pendulum to swing back, and/ or…

ii) Civics classes (or equivalent) should do a better job clarifying what criminal offences are and where they are warranted.

Side note: I don’t know if you should be tossing around “Feelz Over Realz” since it’s kind of your m.o.

Something to give the little hooded bat-wielders pause for thought.

It’s like you live in a comic book where you’re Batman and everyone you’ve decided you don’t like is a nameless thug that exists to get biffed and kapowed by your mighty fantasy logic.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Autumn,

This is fear mongering nonsense over a law that won’t exist, and even if it ever did manage to make it into legislation would be overturned with the first case to reach a higher court. The most aggressive statute in the US I am aware of to date is New York’s anti-discrimination legislation which does not make accidental misgendering a fine.

The only reason such a law doesn’t pass and would get overturned is because some of us still still respect Inalienable Indiviual Rights and won’t let the enemies of these Rights have a chance. They can’t either Mott or Bailey when they are ran out of the legislature and out of the village on a rail.

Also, most U.S. Citizens are smarter than most New Yorkers, judging from the numbers of people trying to escape. I’m waiting for “Snake” Pliskin Eye Patches to become a fashion statement. 😉

It’s like you live in a comic book where you’re Batman and everyone you’ve decided you don’t like is a nameless thug that exists to get biffed and kapowed by your mighty fantasy logic.

I’m not Batman, but nameless thugs are nameless thugs and as The World’s Greatest Detective observed, they are a superstitious lot, especially in thinking that words make reality.
🦇

[AutumnParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

The only reason such a law doesn’t pass and would get overturned is because some of us still still respect Inalienable Indiviual Rights and won’t let the enemies of these Rights have a chance.

Nah. It’s because your legal system biases toward a pretty liberal interpretation of the first amendment and would be unlikely to give a free pass to such a literal and aggressive curtailment of free speech. If it didn’t, you wouldn’t do a damn thing,

Also, most U.S. Citizens are smarter than most New Yorkers, judging from the numbers of people trying to escape. I’m waiting for “Snake” Pliskin Eye Patches to become a fashion statement.

Or maybe it’s that supply and demand thinking has pushed rents/ leases up so damn high people and businesses are finding it easier to set up elsewhere. New York is far and away the most populous city in the US as well as the most densely populated.

I’m not Batman, but nameless thugs are nameless thugs and as The World’s Greatest Detective observed, they are a superstitious lot, especially in thinking that words make reality.

It’s your imagination, so they can be whatever you want them to be. *CRASH!* *BOP!* *ZOINK!*

[Author]

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