"If you can prove God exists, I'll resign"

[Earle SanbornParticipant]

Guys and girls, there is no argument, statement, or idea that I could relate that would have any impact on your modes of thinking. This is a discussion board I gather. It’s to discuss ideas, thoughts, desires, interests etc. right?

Pope Beanie, who’ve set up for yourself an interesting proposal “If you can prove God exists, I’ll resign”.

That is a whale of a pompous statement. Since God is Spirit and most, but not all, atheists don’t believe in the unseen world (which is really illogical -think of the many forces that hold the universe together and its expansion, think of gravity (can’t see it but it’s there) then you’ll never have the proof you desire to resign since you deem what is real and what is not which is why your the Pope!

If you recall not one Apostle came “running to God” they were chosen. Man has an unrealized antagonism toward anything called “God” because man for the most part is arrogant, selfish, pompous, and quite full of himself, until he realizes he’s flesh and bones and subject to decay and death (real death)– like “the dead know nothing” Eccl 9-that one statement alone refutes many human ideas about life, death, reincarnation, etc. Man will do anything to resist God until he can’t further resist like Jonah.

An Unseen- did you say we don’t have “free will”? Who told you that you don’t have free will? You can sleep or get up, eat or not eat, drink or not drink, lay around or work; this notion that we don’t have free will has transformed our society from one of personal responsibility to “my bad”. Everyone actually exhibits free will all day until they have to make some excuse. You can have sex with someone or elect not to- you’re not driven by instinct alone my man.

 

 

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Thanks for the clarification Earle. I assume you are quoting from “Ends and Means”?

Science is a tool used to discover how things work. It is used to further our understanding of the world around us. This allows us to construct a model of reality that can be tested by experiment. That all life on Earth shares common ancestry and that humans are an evolved species is once such understanding of reality that Science has shone its light upon and revealed to us. The investigative world of science is not necessarily concerned with what its discoveries mean. So when Huxley said “a world from which all meaning has deliberately been excluded” he was mistaken.  It was never the task of Science to deduce the purpose of our existence or to offer us the “meaning of life”. It is true that science does not concern emotions and passions. It is like claiming that the game of football has deliberately excluded tennis and is somehow devalued because of that exclusion. No atheist needs to understand Science in order to be an atheist. All it requires is a lack of believe in the existence of any god.
Being free from the constraints imposed via religious morality does lead to liberation for many former theists. But in general they are discovering “normal” human freedoms. The religious often preach about the “carnal sins of unbelievers” (my words) as if what “we” get up to is somehow a perversion of sexual expression. This is not the case. What “we” do is “normal”. We often see the overtly religious as being sexually repressed because they are told how to behave. That can lead to deviant behavior because they never get to understand their true sexuality. Enforced celibacy is a form of sexual perversion as it is not natural. For those of us who have been atheists for a long time or have never been religious, we do not feel liberated. We just consider ourselves to be “normal”, if we ever stop to even consider it. I have heard theist talk about how sex is meaningless outside of wedlock. I would just substitute the word “meaningless” with the word “fun” as I do for most meaningless things in life that give my life meaning and without an end purpose ever in mind. I fink they all freeky and I love them all!!

May I suggest that the world in which we find ourselves was started by the Eternal, but has been ruled by Lucifer all these years. It was given to him to govern.

Not really unless you are prepared to offer evidence to support it. Explain to the ex-Hindus here what you mean or to those of us who never heard of Lucifer or what the “Eternal” is.

My mom and dad are simply dead and know nothing.

So are mine and have been for years. I will be dead too in less than 50 years’ time.

They are reincarnated. Is that a typo or are you being serious?

If I am to be reincarnated I would love to return as a ladies field hockey pitch on a dirty wet Sunday on finals day with the game going into extra time, if I am lucky. Oh the very thought of it!!

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Since God is Spirit and most, but not all, atheists don’t believe in the unseen world (which is really illogical -think of the many forces that hold the universe together and its expansion, think of gravity (can’t see it but it’s there) then you’ll never have the proof you desire…

That is poor analogy. We have evidence for gravity. The theory of Gravity is falsifiable in that we can test for it even though we cannot see it. We have evidence for expansion. That is how we know it is happening!

I know many atheists that “believe in an unseen world” or that there is more than just the physical world. You seem to misunderstand what atheism is. It is just a lack of belief in the existence of any god. You also make the common mistake of thinking (or assuming) that we are looking for proof. We are not. Some evidence to support that your statements about the reality of a supernatural world existing would be appreciated but we know you don’t have any. All you have are your assertions based upon your subjective opinion and zero evidence to back any of it up.

There is no evidence for any god. No one has any. Do you?

Please bear in mind that the Bible is the claim for God and not the proof for God so please don’t quote it as if it proves anything.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Reg, but science does concern emotions and passions.  Psychology has that covered.  Biology too.

What it does not concern is the deliberate lie-the aesthetic and tendentious in which believers are instructed to leave their natural curiosity and skepticism aside.

All such crap is not observable or testable.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Guys and girls, there is no argument, statement, or idea that I could relate that would have any impact on your modes of thinking.

You could try the one that impacted your mode of thinking??

[jakelafortParticipant]

Okay Earle,

You’ve gotten these kindly atheists to demonstrate to you that your thinking is way way off.  Howz bout an admission of such?

It takes such maturity and humility to admit one is wrong particularly on such a grand scale.  I would applaud Earle or anybody similarly situated who is forthright and has integrity to cop to his ignorance.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Reg, but science does concern emotions and passions.  Psychology has that covered.  Biology too.

Branches of Science can and do study the subject of emotions and what makes us passionate.  But as per the Huxley quote, which was what I was debating, Science as a method of discovery or investigation of hypothesis, is clinical. Those involved may be passionate but the process is not.

Since God is Spirit…

How do you know this? Why are you even bothering to mention anything about Science which investigates natural phenomena and is unconcerned with the supernatural for which no evidence to investigate exists. You are only pretending to know things that you cannot possibly know. Please be honest and admit you are taking it all on Faith.

[UnseenParticipant]

Earle Sanborn wrote:

An Unseen- did you say we don’t have “free will”? Who told you that you don’t have free will?

Earle, I can see clearly that one difference between us is that I don’t believe something because someone told me to believe it. Rather, based on what I know. I know we have a nervous system including a brain and I know that my thoughts and actions emanate from or are functionally related to the goings on therein. I know that the brain operates according to the laws of physics. In order to be free, the brain would have to be irrelevant to the process. Why then did your God give us a brain as well as the laws of physics?

So, you see, my belief isn’t because someone told me I don’t have free will. It’s based on logic.

Now, some philosophers argue that we do have free will, but their arguments seem to me to be end runs around the fact that whatever we do is something that on the physical level we had no choice what to do. They can present no fact-based proofs of free will. Beyond that, there’s strong evidence that our decisions and choices, far from being conscious, are made in a state of preconsciousness anywhere from a fraction of a second to several seconds before we are aware that a choice or decision has been made. And of course what’s left reflexive actions that we do totally unconsciously, like flinching when surprised.

[DavisModerator]

Except of course unseen, you’ve mischaracterised those philosophers arguments because you don’t know their arguments because you’ve never read them. It’s one thing to not believe something because someone tells you do…its another thing to not believe something cause you are too lazy to pick up a book and read.

[jakelafortParticipant]

My bad Reg.

This is a perfect illustration of how a quote out of context utterly distorts the speakers intent.

[Woo-wooot!Participant]

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• This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  Woo-wooot!.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

So Earle will you be honest and admit you take it all on faith now that you have had a few days to ponder it further?

[Earle SanbornParticipant]

Reg, at lunch time so here’s the deal so far.

What has tipped me to strong belief regarding the God of Abraham is the documented evidence of fulfilled prophesy. Which one you may ask? The proof that Great Britain and the USA were and are the prophesied fulfillment of the promises to Abraham, to Isaac, then to Jacob (renamed Israel) “that your descendants will be like the stars of heaven or sand of the sea (very numerous) and the younger (Ephraim) will be before the older (Manasseh). 1. They will be a company of nations (UK); 2. They will have possession of the gates of their enemies (Hormuz, Gibraltar, Panama Canal, Suez Canal, Singapore, etc.) 3. They would be a colonizing people (say no more there) but their brother would be the single greatest nation the world has ever seen (any one with an IQ above room temperature) knows America has been blessed with the two oceans for protection, every good portion of land (the bread basket of the world).

Think of the words of the song by Woody Guthrie “This land is your land” Think of words to “America the Beautiful”. It is without question England and America are brother nations and all these things came about 2,520 years after the 10 tribes of Israel were taken captive by the Assyrians (modern day Germans) in 722-721 BC. The tribes 10 weren’t ‘lost’ they were taken captive and the Assyrians moved them to the Mediterranean and took those people and moved them down to the land they possessed. The Assyrians always moved their captures.  Hopefully you recall that Israel split into two nations- Judah (Judah, Benjamin, Levites) and Israel (the ten tribes- led by Reuben the first born) and constantly at war with each other. You do know that both these tribes did exactly what the nations before them did whom God dispossessed because of their wickedness (burn children to Moloch, made idols of gold, silver, bronze, men had relations with women who weren’t their wives, and their daughter; women had relations with men who were not their husbands as well as their sons. Sons and daughters had relations with each other and on and on, forgot the Sabbath, etc. – just like the Canaanites before them. So God allowed them to be taken captive by various nations, they would repent, God would send a savior of sorts (Samson, Gideon, etc.) then they would have peace for 20-40 years and go right back to sacrificing and whoring around. Finally the Eternal had enough and punished them 7x for their sins and provoking the Eternal after all He did for them. A day for a year is 360 years x 7 is exactly 2,520 years which corresponds to 1800 for Israel and 1917 for Judah. Hopefully you are aware of the Balfour declaration in 1917. You can call it whatever you want but being a man of numbers and statistics (CPA and CFE) it passed the smell test as real. This happened to me about 10 years ago when I was 48– I didn’t expect it but the accounts and numbers and history doesn’t lie. If you don’t here it is “The Balfour Declaration was a public statement issued by the British government during World War I announcing support for the establishment of a “national home for the Jewish people” in Palestine, then an Ottoman region with a minority Jewish population”.

I’ve tried to put into practice the 10 commandments especially the Saturday Sabbath and tithing a full 10%- and not sleeping around, etc. and all I can say is my bank accounts are heavier, my mind is clearer and most people don’t believe I’m 58- my picture is 7 years old – so that’s a good thing too.

Regards

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

@Earle:

Thanks for that. Just a few quick questions requiring only brief answers if you have time.

Do you believe the God of Bible is the Creator of the Universe?

Do you pray to this God and how do you define prayer?

Do you believe (hope) you will go to “Heaven”?

Do you accept the Theory of Evolution, that humans were not created in the “form” we are now in but evolved from and share a common ancestry with other primates? Yes or No will suffice as an answer.

 

[jakelafortParticipant]

Unfearl the Earle.

Each prophecy a pearl.

Tell us more.  Tell us more.  You’ve uncovered it.  We adore.

[Author]

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