"If you can prove God exists, I'll resign"
July 10, 2018 at 5:31 pm #10021
Guys and girls, there is no argument, statement, or idea that I could relate that would have any impact on your modes of thinking. This is a discussion board I gather. It’s to discuss ideas, thoughts, desires, interests etc. right?
Pope Beanie, who’ve set up for yourself an interesting proposal “If you can prove God exists, I’ll resign”.
That is a whale of a pompous statement. Since God is Spirit and most, but not all, atheists don’t believe in the unseen world (which is really illogical -think of the many forces that hold the universe together and its expansion, think of gravity (can’t see it but it’s there) then you’ll never have the proof you desire to resign since you deem what is real and what is not which is why your the Pope!
If you recall not one Apostle came “running to God” they were chosen. Man has an unrealized antagonism toward anything called “God” because man for the most part is arrogant, selfish, pompous, and quite full of himself, until he realizes he’s flesh and bones and subject to decay and death (real death)– like “the dead know nothing” Eccl 9-that one statement alone refutes many human ideas about life, death, reincarnation, etc. Man will do anything to resist God until he can’t further resist like Jonah.
An Unseen- did you say we don’t have “free will”? Who told you that you don’t have free will? You can sleep or get up, eat or not eat, drink or not drink, lay around or work; this notion that we don’t have free will has transformed our society from one of personal responsibility to “my bad”. Everyone actually exhibits free will all day until they have to make some excuse. You can have sex with someone or elect not to- you’re not driven by instinct alone my man.July 10, 2018 at 6:05 pm #10022
Thanks for the clarification Earle. I assume you are quoting from “Ends and Means”?
Science is a tool used to discover how things work. It is used to further our understanding of the world around us. This allows us to construct a model of reality that can be tested by experiment. That all life on Earth shares common ancestry and that humans are an evolved species is once such understanding of reality that Science has shone its light upon and revealed to us. The investigative world of science is not necessarily concerned with what its discoveries mean. So when Huxley said “a world from which all meaning has deliberately been excluded” he was mistaken. It was never the task of Science to deduce the purpose of our existence or to offer us the “meaning of life”. It is true that science does not concern emotions and passions. It is like claiming that the game of football has deliberately excluded tennis and is somehow devalued because of that exclusion. No atheist needs to understand Science in order to be an atheist. All it requires is a lack of believe in the existence of any god.
Being free from the constraints imposed via religious morality does lead to liberation for many former theists. But in general they are discovering “normal” human freedoms. The religious often preach about the “carnal sins of unbelievers” (my words) as if what “we” get up to is somehow a perversion of sexual expression. This is not the case. What “we” do is “normal”. We often see the overtly religious as being sexually repressed because they are told how to behave. That can lead to deviant behavior because they never get to understand their true sexuality. Enforced celibacy is a form of sexual perversion as it is not natural. For those of us who have been atheists for a long time or have never been religious, we do not feel liberated. We just consider ourselves to be “normal”, if we ever stop to even consider it. I have heard theist talk about how sex is meaningless outside of wedlock. I would just substitute the word “meaningless” with the word “fun” as I do for most meaningless things in life that give my life meaning and without an end purpose ever in mind. I fink they all freeky and I love them all!!
May I suggest that the world in which we find ourselves was started by the Eternal, but has been ruled by Lucifer all these years. It was given to him to govern.
Not really unless you are prepared to offer evidence to support it. Explain to the ex-Hindus here what you mean or to those of us who never heard of Lucifer or what the “Eternal” is.
My mom and dad are simply dead and know nothing.
So are mine and have been for years. I will be dead too in less than 50 years’ time.
They are reincarnated. Is that a typo or are you being serious?
If I am to be reincarnated I would love to return as a ladies field hockey pitch on a dirty wet Sunday on finals day with the game going into extra time, if I am lucky. Oh the very thought of it!!July 10, 2018 at 6:36 pm #10023
Since God is Spirit and most, but not all, atheists don’t believe in the unseen world (which is really illogical -think of the many forces that hold the universe together and its expansion, think of gravity (can’t see it but it’s there) then you’ll never have the proof you desire…
That is poor analogy. We have evidence for gravity. The theory of Gravity is falsifiable in that we can test for it even though we cannot see it. We have evidence for expansion. That is how we know it is happening!
I know many atheists that “believe in an unseen world” or that there is more than just the physical world. You seem to misunderstand what atheism is. It is just a lack of belief in the existence of any god. You also make the common mistake of thinking (or assuming) that we are looking for proof. We are not. Some evidence to support that your statements about the reality of a supernatural world existing would be appreciated but we know you don’t have any. All you have are your assertions based upon your subjective opinion and zero evidence to back any of it up.
There is no evidence for any god. No one has any. Do you?
Please bear in mind that the Bible is the claim for God and not the proof for God so please don’t quote it as if it proves anything.July 10, 2018 at 6:44 pm #10024
Reg, but science does concern emotions and passions. Psychology has that covered. Biology too.
What it does not concern is the deliberate lie-the aesthetic and tendentious in which believers are instructed to leave their natural curiosity and skepticism aside.
All such crap is not observable or testable.July 10, 2018 at 6:48 pm #10025
Guys and girls, there is no argument, statement, or idea that I could relate that would have any impact on your modes of thinking.
You could try the one that impacted your mode of thinking??July 10, 2018 at 6:56 pm #10026
You’ve gotten these kindly atheists to demonstrate to you that your thinking is way way off. Howz bout an admission of such?
It takes such maturity and humility to admit one is wrong particularly on such a grand scale. I would applaud Earle or anybody similarly situated who is forthright and has integrity to cop to his ignorance.July 10, 2018 at 8:28 pm #10027
Reg, but science does concern emotions and passions. Psychology has that covered. Biology too.
Branches of Science can and do study the subject of emotions and what makes us passionate. But as per the Huxley quote, which was what I was debating, Science as a method of discovery or investigation of hypothesis, is clinical. Those involved may be passionate but the process is not.
Since God is Spirit…
How do you know this? What are you even bothering to mention anything about Science which investigates natural phenomena and is unconcerned with the supernatural for which no evidence to investigate exists. You are only pretending to know things that you cannot possibly know. Please be honest and admit you are taking it all on Faith.July 11, 2018 at 2:12 am #10028
An Unseen- did you say we don’t have “free will”? Who told you that you don’t have free will?
Earle, I can see clearly that one difference between us is that I don’t believe something because someone told me to believe it. Rather, based on what I know. I know we have a nervous system including a brain and I know that my thoughts and actions emanate from or are functionally related to the goings on therein. I know that the brain operates according to the laws of physics. In order to be free, the brain would have to be irrelevant to the process. Why then did your God give us a brain as well as the laws of physics?
So, you see, my belief isn’t because someone told me I don’t have free will. It’s based on logic.
Now, some philosophers argue that we do have free will, but their arguments seem to me to be end runs around the fact that whatever we do is something that on the physical level we had no choice what to do. They can present no fact-based proofs of free will. Beyond that, there’s strong evidence that our decisions and choices, far from being conscious, are made in a state of preconsciousness anywhere from a fraction of a second to several seconds before we are aware that a choice or decision has been made. And of course what’s left reflexive actions that we do totally unconsciously, like flinching when surprised.July 11, 2018 at 11:36 am #10031
Except of course unseen, you’ve mischaracterised those philosophers arguments because you don’t know their arguments because you’ve never read them. It’s one thing to not believe something because someone tells you do…its another thing to not believe something cause you are too lazy to pick up a book and read.July 12, 2018 at 1:59 am #10054
My bad Reg.
This is a perfect illustration of how a quote out of context utterly distorts the speakers intent.July 12, 2018 at 8:08 am #10060
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