Reincarnation. Does a multiverse (if true) vindicate it?

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This topic contains 22 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Ivy 5 months, 4 weeks ago.

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  • #26428

    Davis
    Participant

    @simon

    It seems the lengthy text I typed out explaining how fine-tuning is a fallacy didn’t really get through. Fine tuning is an extension of the cave-fallacy. If you find a cave that is habitable, it is not logical to conclude that the cave was created by someone. Caves pop up all the time by completely unrelated geological forces that have absolutely nothing to do with the sheltering of intelligent animals. So no, that cave wasn’t created by some higher source or greater consciousness or long term plan. What kind of creative intelligence would create cold windy leaky unhealthy cave homes for barely evolved proto-humans? The emergence of caves are that very thing, the emergence of a phenomena from a small set of phenomena (which also emerged from a smaller set of phenomena and so in). There is no difference between that falicious conclusion with the cave and how life emerged in our universe. Just because life showed up doesn’t give us enough reason to conclude that we were meant to pop up. As with the cave we can just as easily be the result of unrelated or unintended or totally indifferent processes. Think about waves or star constellations or the frequency of spiral shapes in nature that independently emerged. They are also meaningless bi-products of an indifferent epic process. If you are stuck in this “yeah but how could this all possibly be here for no reason…what’s just crazy” then fine. I can respect anyone who is fixed in their view of the universe. But try not to use the word “clearly” because claiming the universe is fine-tuned is actually an incredible claim that requires a LOT more evidence than “I can’t imagine any other explanation” … evidence or explanations no one has ever properly given.

    It’s just an expression.

    Is the bible is “just an expression”? Is the story of the immaculate conception is “just an expression”.?

    How can “fine tuning” refer to anything other than the claim that the emergence of life is fine-tuned? What could you express other than a purpose-driven cosmology?

    What would you call it?

    The default position that we should have considering the lack of evidence of any current explanation. Emergence. It’s a boring meaningless cold unexciting disappointing grey anti-climactic unappealing explanation. But the right one logically.

    #26429

    Davis
    Participant

    If you had an infinite domino rally that started on Earth and spread out in 1000 lines in 1000 directions for each on an infinite run, I don’t know how one could logically conclude that there must be an infinite diversity of domino shapes or colours or patterns or domino tilting mechanisms. There’s simply no reason the dominoes cannot all be rectangular red white and blue series with no other meaningful color or shape or placement variations. Infinite patterns can easily include repetition and or even the random arrangement of a finite set of objects/qualities. I don’t see why the multi-verse theory (which to begin with is a highly conceptual theory of which not a single detail can be factually justified) MUST include infinite variety ranging from the recognizable to the most exotically crazy unintelligible mirror universes. The laws of physics as we understand them cover an incredibly small set of rules (considering the size and scope of our universe). I’m not sure why every universe MUST have any more or less, that there cannot be constant rules throughout all those universes and why there cannot be a finite set of life forms (and variations of those light forms) that could ever emerge. If a trillion life forms kept reincarnating for trillions of Eons and the Earth’s biosphere’s genetic structure didn’t appreciably change, then there is no reason there wouldn’t be a repetition of life forms over time. I don’t see why you wouldn’t eventually find a dog that is genetically identical to the dog I have now some time off into the infinite future. It’s a pretty incredible result but its also just an unremarkable byproduct of a limit to variations over time involving enormous permutations but even more enormous time scales. I can easily imagine there being another “unseen” some google-google-google” years in the future (though I’d imagine he’d grow up in a very different environment and that atheist-zone wouldn’t be around anymore…or would it?).

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by  Davis.
    #26431

    Unseen
    Participant

    Raninto this video this evening:

    #26432

    Ivy
    Participant

    Something I have recently found very interesting is a lot of the legends that are told from Native Americans. And I’m not talking just one tribe, but many tribes. There exists this idea of a “portal” that leads to another dimension or world. Anyway I realize that nobody believes in that stuff here but I find it interesting.

    #26433

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I believe the idea of a portal to another world, features in British folklore as well.  For example, the bottom of a river.

    #26435

    Davis
    Participant

    Unseen, why did you choose the word reincarnation? Reincarnation has so much cultural baggage along with it, this can only create a lot of confusion.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 4 weeks ago by  Davis.
    #26436

    Davis
    Participant

    re: portal

    Native American tribes have lived within a cultural continuum for centuries. That means ideas spread, over long periods of time, across a great distance. There are also language continuums amongst some native peoples which covers millions of square kilometers…so if their language influences one other over time, then their ideas most certainly also spread. There you go…tons of tribes believe in this portal because tons of them have heard of the idea. Even if that wasn’t the case, the portal meme is not remarkably original or rare. You find variations of it across the world, just as we find many similar traits among religions and world views. The fact that many distinct people have similar strange cosmological claims is not evidence that they are true.

    As for the portal being interesting…did anything you read provide any actual evidence that these portals exist…other than the fact that several tribes on the same continent all have this theory?

    #26438

    Ivy
    Participant

    @davis I have only recently heard of this idea. In particular it was in regards to the Superstition Mountains in Arizona just outside of Phoenix. There are TONS of legends about these mountains….anyway…

     

     

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