Reincarnation. Does a multiverse (if true) vindicate it?

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This topic contains 22 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Ivy 2 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #26371

    Unseen
    Participant

    No, not reincarnation in the Hindu/Buddhist sense of being reborn in another body here on Earth.

    What I’m asking is this: If there’s a multiverse and if the multiverse contains an infinitude of universes, then mustn’t I appear an infinite number of times?

    If so, it seems unlikely I’ll know what happened. “Oh, here I am YET AGAIN!”

    There are a lot of ifs and a lot depends upon our understanding of infinity, as well as whether a real infinity is even possible.

    My sole intent is to see what people think by initiating a conversation.

    • This topic was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  Unseen.
    #26393

    I like the  Multiverse Theory but I don’t see that each Universe is a slight variation of the next. They can be born from the same creative source but each of them unique. Just as each of the billions of planets in our galaxy are different to each other and each of the billions of stars are different to each other and again each of the billions of galaxies in our Universe are different. We don’t think of a variation of ourselves existing on other planets in other galaxies so why do we when it comes to each potential Universe. Maybe “all” the Universes’ are held in another  “hyperverse” when is itself just one of billions of hypeverses…..and turtles all the way up…

    #26394

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Because of fine-tuning, if there is a multiverse, most of the universes don’t contain matter, only energy?

    #26400

    The Universe only has the appearance of “fine tuning”.  The Anthropic principle says our Universe is finely tuned to have evolved to support sentient life. That is to say it was “selected” for life. Does this mean other Universes were not selected for life or are differently finely tuned for other life forms? Maybe we can only observe life in our Universe because it is the only one that has evolved to be compatible with human life?

    It has evolved in such a way as to have the appearance of being finally tuned but Evolution is natural. It has no producer or director shouting “Action”.

    I mentioned before that if reincarnation were true then I would like to return as a ladies field hockey pitch for finals day on a wet Sunday afternoon.

    #26401

    Davis
    Participant

    Fine tuning isn’t an actual thing Simon. It’s a claim made by uneducated mostly creationists desperate to prove their ancient book explains the creation of our planet rather than say, 200 years of painstaking investigation. The multiverse-theory is simply a way to respond to those who claim the universe is fine-tuned. There are many ways to respond to it, some of them not involving wildly speculative theories. I like the multiverse theory but I can easily admit that it is totally infalsifiable at the moment. There are a few scientists who have claimed there is evidence but that evidence is extremely shoddy. Thus there is no actual fine tuning or multiverse, not until at least either case is properly demonstrated, of which neither are.

    As for the actual qualities of the multiverse, well, since it doesn’t obviously exist there is no absolute standard explanation. Some say there is a new universe for most newly created black holes and/or kinds of singularities. Others say every quantum event creates a new universe (I think that would multiply the amount of universes every plank-second by more than a google. Which would quickly lead to a google-google universes in less than one Earth-second. That’s a lot of universes to explore. As in if you visited every one spending 5 minutes in each to see how different they are from our universe you’d be dead before you visited 0.000…000……..000………………..001% of them (those gaps involve millions of millions of millions of millions of ………….. zeros). Every second you’ll have to add a LOT of zeros to that figure. Whatever rules about it on how it works, can be decided by you, since if every universe can have radically different rules of physics then the rules of the multiverse can also have radically different rules to our own universe, meaning the only limit on how it works is the power of your imagination.

    #26402

    Davis
    Participant

    If a nomadic people desperate for a new home came across a cave, lets say it has some evidence of people having lived there before…there is a good chance they would believe that this cave had been created for the very purpose of living. Either created by the previous residents, or by the magic tree spirit or by sacred mother goose etc. This is a highly generalized example of fine-tuning theory which is an extremely terrible theory because the cave formation can generally be explained…if you are patient enough to listen to the explanation and the details necessary to understand it. The argument could be made that of the thousands of rocks involved that make up the stone structure (or mountain) the cave is a part of could have formed in a near infinite number of ways. It is actually true. There are zillions of possible arrangement of possible tetris puzzles made from the rocks that form that cave. And it is likely that more than 99% of them would not allow for a cave you could ever live in (or at least one that was safe). And yet there would still be quite a number of caves that WERE habitable. The best explanation is: there are untold number of rock formations on Earth and a small percentage which have habitable caves. This is akin to one of the multiverse theories which posits different rules of physics for the every one of the numerous universes of which a tiny number could ever produce complex systems (let alone sentient beings). But there are also other ways of explaining the absurdity of these theories. For example Dawkins wrote a helarious line: if a puddle that formed in a hole could think they might say “wow…I perfectly fit in this hole…it’s like this hole was destined for me, this puddle and I was destined for it” which simply goes against the fact that this puddle would happily fit in many many many other holes and a larger puddle would fit in many more etc. The puddle is confused by the illusion of creation and destiny. Most of these explanations makes you confront enormous numbers and tiny subsets of those numbers. Others include simple critical thinking and the fallacies. Others involve humour and cavemen and pissed off cats.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by  Davis.
    #26407

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    Others say every quantum event creates a new universe (I think that would multiply the amount of universes every plank-second by more than a google. Which would quickly lead to a google-google universes in less than one Earth-second.

    I like your math on that, so I agree. I hope those pseudo-scientists eventually fork off to a different universe.

    #26408

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    if a puddle that formed in a hole could think […]

    Douglas Adams! Now say Hail Mary 42 times.

    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/70827-this-is-rather-as-if-you-imagine-a-puddle-waking

    #26415

    Unseen
    Participant

    I like the Multiverse Theory but I don’t see that each Universe is a slight variation of the next. They can be born from the same creative source but each of them unique. Just as each of the billions of planets in our galaxy are different to each other and each of the billions of stars are different to each other and again each of the billions of galaxies in our Universe are different. We don’t think of a variation of ourselves existing on other planets in other galaxies so why do we when it comes to each potential Universe. Maybe “all” the Universes’ are held in another “hyperverse” when is itself just one of billions of hypeverses…..and turtles all the way up…

    I think you’re forgetting the notion of an infinitude of universes, which may or may not be true, of course. But if true, mustn’t everything happen, not once, but an infinity of times? If not, then infinity has limits, which is an oxymoron, is it not?

    Infinity is a paradoxical concept that generates an infinity of paradoxes. LOL

    #26416

    Unseen
    Participant

    The Universe only has the appearance of “fine tuning”. The Anthropic principle says our Universe is finely tuned to have evolved to support sentient life. That is to say it was “selected” for life. Does this mean other Universes were not selected for life or are differently finely tuned for other life forms? Maybe we can only observe life in our Universe because it is the only one that has evolved to be compatible with human life? It has evolved in such a way as to have the appearance of being finally tuned but Evolution is natural. It has no producer or director shouting “Action”. I mentioned before that if reincarnation were true then I would like to return as a ladies field hockey pitch for finals day on a wet Sunday afternoon.

    I saw a video recently where a prominent physicist made fun of the anthropic principle. Basically, if the universe is so fine tuned to be friendly to life, why isn’t life everywhere else you look in the universe. And if you say, look at Earth, isn’t our planet fine-tuned for life in general and mankind in particular, he said “If you’re born into a desert, don’t be surprised to find that you’ve been born at an oasis.”

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by  Unseen.
    #26418

    I was thinking that if the Mulitverses’ are contained within a “Hyperverse” then I have solved my infinity problem!! But as Woody Allen said, Infinity is a very big number, especially towards the end.  I think I need to lie down and think about it more 🙂

    #26421

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Basically, if the universe is so fine tuned to be friendly to life,

    Surely it’s fine-tuned such that it contains matter, and matter gives rise to life.

    #26423

    Claiming it is “fine-tuned” implies that there is a tuner in the background who made it so that life would evolve. That is exactly what did not happen. Even the matter it contains only just about came about by chance (Energy left over from the BB).

    #26424

    _Robert_
    Participant

    The emergence of life as we know it may be a common, uncommon or unique event….we do not know. Ask a trilobite how “fine-tuned” the “universe” is. We are engrossed in yet another mass extinction as we speak.

    Fine tuning my ass. Any such creator god or alien would certainly be a “hack” that just threw a match on the fire and then took off.

     

    #26427

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Claiming it is “fine-tuned” implies that there is a tuner in the background who made it so that life would evolve.

    It’s just an expression.  What would you call it?

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