This is not normal

[_Robert_]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Robert, Soooo…Does this New Joisey “cease and desist” order include CD-ROMs and hard copy books on weapons, including ones made available to the public by the U.S. Military itself? That simply will not fly under the First Amendment. And I see the presumption of innocence, the burden of proof, and due process aren’t your strong suits. Always great to see people tip their hands and show their cards. 😎😁

So you are OK with digital transmission of kiddie porn? It takes no brains at all to realize that law enforcement and law makers will recognize that printing plastic guns is a much greater threat to safety, life and crime prevention than a home “machined” weapon based on sheer ease and low cost. Believe it or not, the real world is not black and white as libertarian ideologs often fail to grasp. In any event many states require all guns be registered no matter who makes it. You know, like a car, boat, or trailer. 😎😁

[TheEncogitationer]

Unseen,

Funny you should mention voting and guns.

In 1946, there were World War II Veterns who came back home to Athens, Tennessee to find that their elected officials were trying to do to their freedom and their vote what Nazis and Fascists tried to do in Europe. Those Veterans used arms to fight back. A movie was made about it too.

The Battle of Athens (1946)–Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)

[Davis]

It is hard Enco to figure out what your take is on this.

Could you explain, precisely, how anything happening in Tennessee at the time, remotely compared to what Facists and Nazis were doing? I ask because, it is utterly vile to compare the utter horror of true restrictions on freedoms, genocide, mass murder, unthinkable oppression with something as mundane as corrupt yet democratic politics.

I am also not quite sure what you take is on citizens using violence against politicians or candidates they don’t like (however corrupt or dirty they may be), as opposed to, you know…using those democratic principles that they supposedly hold so dear to allow the institutions to either correct the problems or wait until they are democratically voted out. Where do you stand on that? Bear in mind, there have been politicians at all levels, in both parties, doing unthinkably corrupt and dirty things in America in recent years.

Have I missed something?

• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Davis.

[TheEncogitationer]

Robert,

So you are OK with digital transmission of kiddie porn?

If someone commits a crime against another and captures it in a communications medium, that is what is known as criminal evidence. With a warrant based on probable cause or eyewitness in flagrante delicto, law enforcers can seize the evidence and arrest the persons involved and put them on trial for either committing or enabling the criminal acts depicted.

By contrast, it is not a crime to think about guns or to think up a design for a gun and doing so harms no one.

Also, portraying a design of a gun–whether on a blueprint, in a book, on a CD-ROM, in a computer program, or in a computer server or “the cloud”–is not a crime and doing so harms no one.

Moreover, manufacturing a gun–whether by a metalworking machine shop or a 3-D printer working in plastic or a future nano-replicator–is not a crime and (as long as fitting safety procedures are practiced) harms no one.

Finally, owning a gun, by whatever means produced, is not a crime and by itself harms on one.

So between capturing a crime in a communications medium and the entire process of conceiving, designing, manufacturing, and owning a gun…There. Is. No. Analogy. Whatsoever.

For duplicating the Religious Right by attributing life and agency to inanimate objects, by denying the burden of proof, and by using children as little human shields to justify violating Individual Rights, you need to forget ever having called yourself an Atheist, a Secularist, or a Naturalist.

On this Independence Day Weekend, for showing such brazen contempt for The Bill of Rights and The U.S. Constitution, you need to forget ever having called yourself a Citizen of The United States of America.

And for using pseudo-arguments, fallacies, rhetoric, and innuendo that would embarrass a Kindergarten declamation contest, you need to forget ever having identified yourself as Aristotle’s Man, The Rational Animal.

Above all, forget any dialogue with me. You’re dismissed. ‘Bye!

[TheEncogitationer]

Davis,

Gun control (limiting guns to those who are mentally stable, trained, inspected, who have safety measures in place and a good reason to have each different kind of weapon) is effective…works. It simply works.

Without giving any spoilers for the movie Serenity and it’s prologue TV show Firefly, anything can be said to “work”. It all depends on the purpose.

[_Robert_]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Above all, forget any dialogue with me. You’re dismissed. ‘Bye!

Good. At least you know when you have lost on every point. Now go rub your gun, you’ll feel better.

[Unseen]

@Enco

The Battle of Athens only proves that guns can force a change in government.

Duh!

Answer me this, though: What guarantee do we have that the side with the most or most effective guns is the side with The Good on their side?

That’s why we have a democracy. To keep such matters from being settled by violence.

[Davis]

Without giving any spoilers for the movie Serenity and it’s prologue TV show Firefly, anything can be said to “work”. It all depends on the purpose.

I see. So suddenly…you are a relativist? Yeah it was pretty clear, it works if avoiding pointless deaths is more important to you than the illusion of absolute rights. I guess I simply wasn’t over the top bashing you over the head obvious enough in my text Enco.

[Davis]

That’s why we have a democracy. To keep such matters from being settled by violence.

It seems that Enco, and the rioters who stormed Congress…have a different idea of what Democracy is.

[TheEncogitationer]

Davis,

I see. So suddenly…you are a relativist? Yeah it was pretty clear, it works if avoiding pointless deaths is more important to you than the illusion of absolute rights. I guess I simply wasn’t over the top bashing you over the head obvious enough in my text Enco.

Not at all. I was criticizing the Pragmatist notion that a thing is good if it “works.” Anything can be said to “work” depending on the purpose.

Also, things can “work” in multiple directions and against the best of intentions. A gun control law intended to stop criminals ends up disarming the innocent seeking to defend themselves and their loved ones against those very criminals, who are undeterred by gun control laws.

[TheEncogitationer]

Davis,

It is hard Enco to figure out what your take is on this.

Could you explain, precisely, how anything happening in Tennessee at the time, remotely compared to what Facists and Nazis were doing? I ask because, it is utterly vile to compare the utter horror of true restrictions on freedoms, genocide, mass murder, unthinkable oppression with something as mundane as corrupt yet democratic politics.

As the story above about The Battle of Athens pointed out, the battle was not just about the results of an election. It was against an entire corrupt political machine that engaged in black-market business forcibly denied to everyone else, extortion, harassment of both Veterans and civilians, police brutality, and votor intimidation, including shooting an old black guy in the back at the polls. Veterans who seen such things and worse in Europe and in Asia certainly are qualified to speak on these problems.

I am also not quite sure what you take is on citizens using violence against politicians or candidates they don’t like (however corrupt or dirty they may be), as opposed to, you know…using those democratic principles that they supposedly hold so dear to allow the institutions to either correct the problems or wait until they are democratically voted out. Where do you stand on that? Bear in mind, there have been politicians at all levels, in both parties, doing unthinkably corrupt and dirty things in America in recent years.

Have I missed something?

I don’t go out seeking a fight and no wise person does. If a peaceful solution to change for the better is possible, I am always for that. The worst thing anybody could fight over is the results of a decision that is only done every 2,4, or 6 years, which is less consequential than the private personal and economic decisions individuals make every day.

However, when anyone is approaching another and seeking to take away the right to make those personal and economic decisions, and there is no other peacful option to dissuade the aggressor is available, then of course, individuals have every right to resist, no matter who the aggressor is.

[Author]

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