Well, Benjamin, here's your Palestinian State

[UnseenParticipant]

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Right now, a two-state solution is still the formula most of the world endorses but the chances of either side accepting it are slim. Netanyahu and right-wing coalition partners oppose a sovereign Palestinian state, citing security concerns and biblical/historic claims. Many ministers advocate permanent control over much of the West Bank. Most Israelis have zero trust that a Palestinian state would be peaceful. The Palestinian Authority in the West Bank is corrupt, weak and unpopular. Hamas in Gaza does not recognize Israel and wants to just kill Jews for the glory of their god.

When the UN, in 1947, proposed one Jewish state and  one Arab state, with an internationalized Jerusalem, the Jews accepted it, but the Arabs did not. In 1948, Israel declared independence, but Jordan annexed the West Bank and Egypt took Gaza, so they prevented the creation of a Palestinian state.

There has never been a fully independent sovereign state called Palestine. “Palestine” has only existed as a geographic and administrative region, but never as a sovereign state. Jews were almost always present, though often as minorities, and the land’s population was historically very diverse with Muslims, Christians, Jews, Druze, Armenians, etc.

When France (or any country) formally recognizes a Palestinian state, it is acknowledging that Palestine has the status of a state under international law. Recognition itself does not automatically fix its borders. Recognition reflects support for a two-state solution, self-determination, etc., but the precise lines usually require negotiation.

The idea of a two-state solution is still alive in diplomatic circles. But the political will on either  side is at its weakest in decades. Without a generational shift in leadership and public opinion, acceptance is unlikely. Ultimately, Israel and the Palestinian leadership (e.g. Palestinian Authority) will need to negotiate and mutually agree on the borders. Without an agreement between them that both can accept, no external recognition or law can impose a lasting border in practice.

On the ground the control of territories, settlements, demographics, security, Jerusalem’s status, refugees will heavily influence what is negotiable. Even if international law or UN diplomacy sets guidelines, the reality of what Israel holds, what Palestinians demand, and what the international community pressures will matter a great deal. But one thing is for certain. HAMAS will not be deciding any borders, above or below ground.

I am going over to my friend’s house with a present of organic orchard apples and some homemade honey from Poland. Shanah Tovah!

[_Robert_Participant]

There may be a real opportunity and if it materializes, it will up to the Palestinians to finally grow-the-fuck-up. The UN and international troops would have to be in charge for a good while, I’d imagine.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Robert,

There may be a real opportunity and if it materializes, it will up to the Palestinians to finally grow-the-fuck-up. The UN and international troops would have to be in charge for a good while, I’d imagine.

Well, just because Macron endorses the idea of a two-state solution does not mean any other world power has to follow suit. And UN troops means troops of member nations. Given how little nations have cared for either Jews or the populations of Gaza or the West Bank except as pawns to use against the Jews, I don’t see anyone sending “peacekeeping missions” to that corner of the world.

Even supporters of Israel have never endorsed sending troops for Israel, nor do they really need to do so. The desire to exist makes Israelis fight hard enough.

Macron had might as well have recognized Cajun Country as an independent nation.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Reg,

I am going over to my friend’s house with a present of organic orchard apples and some homemade honey from Poland. Shanah Tovah!

Nice gift, and I’m sure it’s Carbon-Based Dr. “Bones” McCoy Tri-Corder-Verified. Quite a Carbon footprint to come all the way from Poland though. 🇵🇱😁

[_Robert_Participant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Robert,

There may be a real opportunity and if it materializes, it will up to the Palestinians to finally grow-the-fuck-up. The UN and international troops would have to be in charge for a good while, I’d imagine.

Well, just because Macron endorses the idea of a two-state solution does not mean any other world power has to follow suit. And UN troops means troops of member nations. Given how little nations have cared for either Jews or the populations of Gaza or the West Bank except as pawns to use against the Jews, I don’t see anyone sending “peacekeeping missions” to that corner of the world. Even supporters of Israel have never endorsed sending troops for Israel, nor do they really need to do so. The desire to exist makes Israelis fight hard enough. Macron had might as well have recognized Cajun Country as an independent nation.

You are probably right, but every journey starts with one step. The Palestinians have never been this beaten back and hopeless before. Gaza is a fucking pile of rocks.  You would think they would see the light. Their Iranian and Syrian (Russian) allies failed to save them.   If they drafted a new charter of peace, minus HAMAS and appealed to the entire world, I think they would get real support from Europe at least as a start. If they continue on the war path, as a death to Israel cult, their suffering is just beginning.

[UnseenParticipant]

Well, if you can either destroy enough Palestinians or make their territory totally unlivable, POOF!, problem solved..

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Robert,

If they drafted a new charter of peace, minus HAMAS and appealed to the entire world, I think they would get real support from Europe at least as a start. If they continue on the war path, as a death to Israel cult, their suffering is just beginning.

Hamas is still around, though, and Gazans who oppose Hamas are in no position to resist. Without Hamas, I’m sure Israel would lead the way in the rebuilding.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

Well, if you can either destroy enough Palestinians or make their territory totally unlivable, POOF!, problem solved..

Said by no one here but you. POOF! Begone, Vaporman maker!

[_Robert_Participant]

At this point one has to admit that the infantile Palestinian culture has been victimized by brainwashing, shitty education, a cult of personality (Arafat) and cult-indoctrination. Far be it for any American to criticize them at this point. Christian Nationalism is no better than Islamic fundamentalism and here we are. The “Find Out” is only just beginning.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Robert,

At this point one has to admit that the infantile Palestinian culture has been victimized by brainwashing, shitty education, a cult of personality (Arafat) and cult-indoctrination. Far be it for any American to criticize them at this point. Christian Nationalism is no better than Islamic fundamentalism and here we are. The “Find Out” is only just beginning.

Americans who aren’t a part of either Islamism or Palestinianism or Christian Nationalism can rightly criticize them all and watch from the cheap seats with a bag of popcorn while they all FAFO.

You like yours with real butter or the yellow drizzle they put on everybody else’s? 🍿😋

[PopeBeanieModerator]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Said by no one here but you. POOF! Begone, Vaporman maker!

I’m noticing that the opinionator you speak of represents, in ratio, about the same representative minority of atheists we might see in a roomful of Americans. I mean there’s some kind of fallacy of logic here, maybe like “appeal to authority”.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

PopeBeanie,

I’m noticing that the opinionator you speak of represents, in ratio, about the same representative minority of atheists we might see in a roomful of Americans. I mean there’s some kind of fallacy of logic here, maybe like “appeal to authority”.

I’m not sure what the representative minority of Atheists in a roomful of Americans would think about this or any other issue, but I was talking about the confines of this Forum. And what I was saying is that no one here has expressed the caricatured, distorted view of the Gaza-Israeli War he was attributing to his opposition. He is constructing not just a Strawman, but a Vaporman. No Appeal to Authority is needed to establish this, just observation of the postings.

[UnseenParticipant]

Talk about illogic, my appeal isn’t an argumentum ad populum (appeal to the mob). The vast majority of well-informed experts who are familiar with what’s going on on the ground hold that Israel is engaging in genocide or something very much close to it. The argumentum ad populum’s mob refers to what you might call The Great Unwashed.

Question: If Israel isn’t engaging in genocidal activities in Gaza, where would you set the bar? Has conducting an actual WW2-style holocaust become the test? Gaza Palestinians are starving in an outdoor prison. If the IDF set up ovens, would even that convince you?

[PopeBeanieModerator]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

And what I was saying is that no one here has expressed the caricatured, distorted view of the Gaza-Israeli War he was attributing to his opposition. He is constructing not just a Strawman, but a Vaporman.

I understood the Enco/Unseen-distortion-perception, then casually ruminated, but got quickly sucked into a (wireless) psycho-harmonic field of trans[sic]-American distance that intimately connected me with demented orange personality expression disorder (DOPED) at its most narcissistic frequency, which transceives the most malicious intentions, full-duplex, in high fidelity. (DOPED usually begins festering during a fated prince’s adolescence. It’s inherited, so it’s not anyone’s fault.)

MAGA is also drafted into the spell of this post-McCarthyism era of DOPED, symbolized now by orange instead of red or pink. Pre-Covid19 SARS viruses first infect only GOP brains, manifesting no visible symptoms, while dormant. So it’s not GOP or MAGA’s fault, either. Sadly, they evolve into zombies that can only survive on GOP-MAGA semen.

That’s why I responded the way I did to your characterization of Unseen. I’m still not over that DOPED nightmare.

[Author]

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