What’s wrong here?: 750+ foreign bases and 20+ foreign wars

Homepage Forums Politics What’s wrong here?: 750+ foreign bases and 20+ foreign wars

This topic contains 30 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  _Robert_ 2 weeks, 3 days ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 31 total)
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  • #45576

    Unseen
    Participant

    We’re everywhere. We’re everywhere. Everywhere especially where a valuable natural resource is to be had or “protected.” With at least 750 foreign bases large and small, and actively fighting in person or by proxy with troops or drones, the amount of the American budget spent on killing people or trying to monopolize the world’s oil and strategic minerals, is impoverishing the Third World and keeping Americans from having the nice things people elsewhere in the First World enjoy. Such as free or affordable healthcare and education.

    Afghanistan, Iraq, maybe Libya. If you asked the average American where the United States has been at war in the past two decades, you would likely get this short list. But this list is wrong — off by at least 17 countries in which the United States has engaged in armed conflict through ground forces, proxy forces, or air strikes.

    For members of the public, the full extent of U.S. war-making is unknown. Investigative journalists and human rights advocates have cobbled together a rough picture of where the military has used force, but they rely on sources whose information is often incomplete, belated, or speculative. There is only so much one can learn about the United States’ military footprint from trawling Purple Heart ceremonies, speaking with retired military personnel, and monitoring social media for reports of civilian harm.

    Congress’s understanding of U.S. war-making is often no better than the public record. (source: Brennan Center for Justice: Secret War)

    #45577

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    I’m all for scaling back our military to keeping U.S. coasts, borders, and airspace secure and to only defending and counter-attacking when there is a credible threat to those coasts, borders, and airspace. I also favor weaning NATO, SEATO, and CENTO nations and all other nations off of U.S. aid so that they can develop their own systems of defense. We have enough petroleum under the North American Continental Shelf to last us well over 1000 years and enough Uranium to keep breeder reactors going indefinitely, so we don’t need the U.S. Military for that.

    All that said, though, the biggest busters of the U.S. National Budget remain Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Cutting back the Military still wouldn’t bail those out, nor can any Government scheme produce affordable health care and education. When a third party pays, there’s no reason to hold down costs.

    And, of course, no human-provided good or service in the Natural Universe is “free.”. If you don’t pay, someone else does.

    #45578

    Unseen
    Participant

    @Enco

    And yet, other countries have credible militaries all the while providing analogs to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, along with subsidized education. Between cutting our military spending by about 80% and asking the corporate sector and the top 10% to pay a fair share (at least percentage-wise what middle America pays in taxes, if not more), I think we could be a much happier and cared for nation.

    #45579

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    Those nations, especially in Europe, have all those gimmies precisely because they are under the umbrella of U.S. Defense. if they had to provide their own defense, there would be some serious reshuffling of cards.

    Look, if U.S. Citizens were free to take what has been taken from them for what Al Gore called the “Lock-Box”–which now is just a box of IOUs–then invest it in an S & P mixed fund of both growth and blue-chips stocks, as well as precious metals for an inflation hedge, all U.S. Citizens would have good retirements without taxing anyone for what you deem a “fair share.”. People wouldn’t have such mutual funds if Social Security was really good.

    #45580

    Unseen
    Participant

    Unseen, Those nations, especially in Europe, have all those gimmies precisely because they are under the umbrella of U.S. Defense. if they had to provide their own defense, there would be some serious reshuffling of cards. Look, if U.S. Citizens were free to take what has been taken from them for what Al Gore called the “Lock-Box”–which now is just a box of IOUs–then invest it in an S & P mixed fund of both growth and blue-chips stocks, as well as precious metals for an inflation hedge, all U.S. Citizens would have good retirements without taxing anyone for what you deem a “fair share.”. People wouldn’t have such mutual funds if Social Security was really good.

    Who are we protecting Europe from? Russia, who is being routed by lowly Ukraine? Russia, which has only the 11th largest economy in the world, behind Germany, Italy, France, and even Canada, and just barely ahead of Brazil (which I think still qualifies as a Third World country)?

    European countries make some of the best military hardware in the world. Lowly Sweden sank an American carrier in war games. And it’s not like Russia is the only nuclear power in the area. The UK and France are nuclear powers as well. Also, clearly, European troops are far better trainee and motivated than their Russian counterparts.

    Your argument is old, tired, and basically silly.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 5 days ago by  Unseen.
    #45581

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    As for education, there’s already a great private alternative to start kids out right under all of our noses! All the time in the store where I work, I see toddlers as young as 3 learning lessons in the Alphabet, Reading, Numbers, Arithmetic, Colors, Shapes, Courtesy, Cooperation, and all on affordable devices and toys like Leap Frog and VTech, as well as affordable child-safe smartpads where they learn from Cocomelon, Peppa Pig, Ryan’s World, ABC mouse.com…and as far as I can tell, none of them come pre-loaded with any God-talk. Any of that comes from parents.

    And as far as “socialization,” (whatever that means,) anything the kiddos see on their toys and smart pads is far better than anything they might see in the grocery store!

    #45583

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    Who are we protecting Europe from? Russia, who is being routed by lowly Ukraine? Russia, which has only the 11th largest economy in the world, behind Germany, Italy, France, and even Canada, and just barely ahead of Brazil (which I think still qualifies as a Third World country)?

    European countries make some of the best military hardware in the world. Lowly Sweden sank an American carrier in war games. And it’s not like Russia is the only nuclear power in the area. The UK and France are nuclear powers as well. Also, clearly, European troops are far better trainee and motivated than their Russian counterparts.

    Your argument is old, tired, and basically silly.

    Europe isn’t providing a better way of life

    You just helped make my argument for me by saying that Europe could fend for itself!

    And you just said that Europe was the bee’s knees for all of it’s gimmies!

    No, your “arguments” are sounding “old, tired, and basically silly.”. Start again.

    #45584

    Unseen
    Participant

    Unseen, As for education, there’s already a great private alternative to start kids out right under all of our noses! All the time in the store where I work, I see toddlers as young as 3 learning lessons in the Alphabet, Reading, Numbers, Arithmetic, Colors, Shapes, Courtesy, Cooperation, and all on affordable devices and toys like Leap Frog and VTech, as well as affordable child-safe smartpads where they learn from Cocomelon, Peppa Pig, Ryan’s World, ABC mouse.com…and as far as I can tell, none of them come pre-loaded with any God-talk. Any of that comes from parents.

    And as far as “socialization,” (whatever that means,) anything the kiddos see on their toys and smart pads is far better than anything they might see in the grocery store!

    I’m not sure what brought that on, but I’ll give it a big resounding “Whatever.”

    I will say it’s kind of sad you don’t know what “socialization” is.

    It’s the process by which individuals, starting as children, acquire the values, habits, and attitudes of a social group.

    #45586

    _Robert_
    Participant

    There is no doubt that post-WW2, US billionaires and corporate boards wanted to create a global free market for goods and labor and pushed our govt. to squash any differing systems by all means possible. So yes, it’s not just the military doing the dirty work; the intelligence agencies cause political instability, and our state/commerce departments exert financial/sanction blackmailing.

    What would be the alternative? Do you sit around and just let totalitarian dictators rise and do what they do. We tried that once.

    #45587

    Unseen
    Participant

    There is no doubt that post-WW2, US billionaires and corporate boards wanted to create a global free market for goods and labor and pushed our govt. to squash any differing systems by all means possible. So yes, it’s not just the military doing the dirty work; the intelligence agencies cause political instability, and our state/commerce departments exert financial/sanction blackmailing.

    What would be the alternative? Do you sit around and just let totalitarian dictators rise and do what they do. We tried that once.

    So, we let own their oil and other resources and choose their own destinies without our interference and the world will fall apart, so we’ve got to be control freaks.

    Hey, wait! Your cure doesn’t sound that far off the disease. It’s been estimated that if one totaled up all the deaths we’ve caused directly or indirectly since WW2, the United States has almost certainly equaled and probably has exceeded the death toll of the Holocaust. Hitler just did it more efficiently.

    We have become the monster we are supposedly fighting.

     

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by  Unseen.
    #45588

    _Robert_
    Participant

    There is no doubt that post-WW2, US billionaires and corporate boards wanted to create a global free market for goods and labor and pushed our govt. to squash any differing systems by all means possible. So yes, it’s not just the military doing the dirty work; the intelligence agencies cause political instability, and our state/commerce departments exert financial/sanction blackmailing.

    What would be the alternative? Do you sit around and just let totalitarian dictators rise and do what they do. We tried that once.

    So, we let own their oil and other resources and choose their own destinies without our interference and the world will fall apart, so we’ve got to be control freaks. Hey, wait! Your cure doesn’t sound that far off the disease. It’s been estimated that if one totaled up all the deaths we’ve caused directly or indirectly since WW2, the United States has almost certainly equaled and probably has exceeded the death toll of the Holocaust. Hitler just did it more efficiently.

    There is no cure, dictators and theocratic maniacs will always attempt invasions, takeovers and genocides. And there is always another dictator. The most consistent aspect of human nature is competitive struggle. So the lesson is to hit them when they are still weak and over there instead of waiting until they are strong and over here.

    Every great civilization in history that got passive, weak and lazy got torn apart by hordes. Since Americans have devolved into fat-ass, entitled, in-fighting idiots; the US military is probably the only thing keeping this declining nation alive. It is actually a characteristic assigned to a declining empire by billionaire Ray Dalio.

    Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order by Ray Dalio – YouTube

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xguam0TKMw8&t=7s

    #45590

    Unseen
    Participant

    @robert

    We have become the monster who overthrows popular governments, kills innocent civilians, and participates in genocides such as the ongoing genocidal war in Yemen.

    #45591

    _Robert_
    Participant

    @robert We have become the monster who overthrows popular governments, kills innocent civilians, and participates in genocides such as the ongoing genocidal war in Yemen.

    Some smart people said everything is relative and it’s hard to tell the forest for the trees. Let’s assume the USSR succeeded and outlasted the West. Would that have been a good thing? Is theocratic Iran a force for a better world. You wanna move to China, have yourself “rated” and surveilled 24/7 and breathe that Bejing air? Are they good to all their citizens? Is that government transparent…at all?

    Doesn’t matter anyway, the US is declining so fast, I give it a few decades before the dollar crashes for good.

    #45592

    Unseen
    Participant

    Some smart people said everything is relative and it’s hard to tell the forest for the trees. Let’s assume the USSR succeeded and outlasted the West. Would that have been a good thing?

    We started out as a country that treated human beings as beasts of burden and yet you seem to think we eventually overcame that legacy to be able to wisely run the entire world to the benefit of all mankind whether they want us to or not, even if that means participating in genocidal wars and shoving our ways down the throats of others. If we can become such a blessing to mankind, why not Russia or China or some other country eventually?

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by  Unseen.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by  Unseen.
    #45595

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Some smart people said everything is relative and it’s hard to tell the forest for the trees. Let’s assume the USSR succeeded and outlasted the West. Would that have been a good thing?

    We started out as a country that treated human beings as beasts of burden and yet you seem to think we eventually overcame that legacy to be able to wisely run the entire world to the benefit of all mankind whether they want us to or not, even if that means participating in genocidal wars and shoving our ways down the throats of others. If we can become such a blessing to mankind, why not Russia or China or some other country eventually?

    So yet another one who thinks a democratic republic is second to a dictatorship? That’s because you can’t even imagine how you would be arrested, tortured and jailed for the unpatriotic post you just made. As for the “SLAVs, serfdom in Russia was finally abolished in 1906.

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