Where We Could Go Without "Eternal Vigilance"

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This topic contains 31 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  TheEncogitationer 4 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 32 total)
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  • #43561

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Fellow Unbelievers,

    In rising-Sun land,
    Dishonorable insults
    Land you into jail. 👺⛩️🇯🇵

    Japan makes insulting people online punishable by up to 1 year in jail
    https://www.insider.com/japan-insults-online-punishable-up-to-1-year-in-jail-2022-6

    I guess Japan will soon be asking the UK to export to them all the confiscated kitchen knives so all the Mount Fuji snowflakes can commit seppuku. 🙄

    #43562

    Autumn
    Participant

    It sounds like the law is addressing harassment and cyberbullying rather than ‘insults’ per se, though possibly it’s poorly written without proper clarification on what constitutes ‘insults’. I doubt any of us here have much understanding of Japanese law or enough literacy in Japanese to read the legislation ourselves. (I mean, if the legislation mentions that it’s cloudy today, that the car is over there, or the dog is over here, I’ve got it covered).

    As for making jokes about suicide, you’re acting like a real disgusting piece of shit.

    #43563

    jakelafort
    Participant

    From Autumn: It sounds like the law is addressing harassment and cyberbullying rather than ‘insults’ per se, though possibly it’s poorly written without proper clarification on what constitutes ‘insults’

    Yup, that was my impression or guess.

    Enco, that was in really bad taste. Snowflakes and yet someone has the courage to take their life? The fact that the government albeit in an apparently kneejerk way is attempting to address an issue that negatively affects in a significant way many lives is laudable. It is also worth noting that they will revisit the issue.

    #43564

    Autumn
    Participant

    The fact that the government albeit in an apparently kneejerk way is attempting to address an issue that negatively affects in a significant way many lives is laudable. It is also worth noting that they will revisit the issue.

    Yeah. At a glance, it seems like a law I probably wouldn’t support in terms of how its laid out (based on the available articles in English), but the aim of the legislation makes sense. Harassment and psychological abuse can have dramatic impact. I recall the ‘Sticks and stones’ line from my childhood. It’s fine in the context of someone calling you a poopyhead on the playground, but even as a kid I thought the saying was a bit silly. Words can cause considerable damage—paradoxically, it’s both the reason speech should be regulated and should not be regulated.

    #43586

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Autumn,

    A centuries-old so-called “honor culture” that deals with finite slights and offenses with suicide and mere words with imprisonment is the real “disgusting piece of shit.” And it’s not my fault that it ever began or still exists.

    Perhaps calling it into derision is one peaceful way to make the “honor culture” stop.

    #43588

    Autumn
    Participant

    Autumn, A centuries-old so-called “honor culture” that deals with finite slights and offenses with suicide and mere words with imprisonment is the real “disgusting piece of shit.” And it’s not my fault that it ever began or still exists. Perhaps calling it into derision is one peaceful way to make the “honor culture” stop.

    They aren’t committing Seppuku. Why you need to talk out your ass like an ignorant prick is beyond me.

    #43591

    Davis
    Moderator

    Enco one can make a critique about something without unnecessarily being a douche in the process. I cannot fathom the value of making light of suicide within the context of geo-political discussion.

    As for your conflation of “hurting someone’s fragile feelings” with things like harassment or spreading vile trash that makes the lives of marginalised people less equal or even dangerous…well…that’s your extremist American style view. Fortunately few here share it and very few countries in the world have adopted it.

    I would imagine most Japanese people would be appalled by your comment and completely unfazed by your application of extremist free speech values analysis to their laws.

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  Davis.
    #43608

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Davis,

    If you had actually read the Insider article, you would have found that Japanese law makes a distinction between defamation, which does indeed cause harm if proven, and insult, which is not necessarily shown to cause harm.

    This Japanese law evidently wants to treat them both the same. There’s the sticky wicket that’s the problem.

    It is also germane that the suicide in the story was a star of a “reality” show, someone who willfully puts themselves out to the public for some pecuniary gain as well as feedback that isn’t always friendly, as opposed to a completely private citizen who doesn’t do any of that.

    Our libel, slander, and privacy laws make such a distinction between celebrities and public figures and everyone else. Judging from the passing of this law, Japan probably doesn’t make such a distinction.

    If citizens of Japan were offended enough by my views, they’d take steps to get rid of the remains of their “honor culture” and get rid of their laws against insults.

    It is telling that I never hear of Americans of Japanese descent bringing this “honor culture” and censoriousness with them. They’re just happy with the opportunity to work and prosper and be a part of a society that doesn’t bind them to ways their predecessors had. And though they certainly do and should remember the totally unjust detention by the FDR regime in World War II, it’s not their total identity. This is something to commend and emulate for all Americans and for all people worldwide.

    And as Revenge of th Nerds demonstrates, the give-and-take of crass comedy and slapstick is as much their birthright as anybody’s 😁:

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Addendum of a great video
    #43610

    Autumn
    Participant

    Though suicide statistics vary by source, (e.g. WHO puts the US slightly higher than Japan, while OECD puts the US slightly lower) suicide rates between Japan and the US are actually pretty similar from most sources.  Furthermore, suicide rates have been trending down in Japan and up in the US over the last two decades. it’s difficult to believe that honour culture is really that much of a differentiator. Suicide is a complex matter.

    I am curious where you get the idea that anti-defamation laws make a distinction for celebrities. To a certain extent, privacy laws laws have some wiggle room around celebrities as figures of public interest. Tabloids manage to skirt the fine edge of defamation or bank on libel suits against them not being worthwhile, but that doesn’t mean defamation law actually varies. I’d be curious in which states this distinction is made.

    #43611

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Enco is right about a distinction. Even a blind squirrel chances on a nut.

    Ny Times v. Sullivan. Supreme court case makes celebrity/public figures have a more difficult standard as plaintiffs to prove defamation.

    #43615

    Autumn
    Participant

    Fair enough.

    #43624

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Autumn, Davis, and Jake,

    Using insults in attempts to apple-polish and defend a law against insults is such delicious irony! 😄😆😂🤣😅

    All you need is a little self-awareness and you three could make great comedians!😁

    #43625

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Enco, you protest too much revealing your inner snowflake.

    #43632

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Autumn,

    Statistics vary from nation to nation and year to year, of course, but suicide is so much a part of Japanese culture that it has a geographic site, The Aokigahara Forest, where people come, both from Japan and all over the world, to end their own lives:

    33 Facts About Japan’s Suicide Forest That Will Freak You Out
    YES, IT’S FULL OF GHOSTS.
    By
    SARAH CROW
    JUNE 13, 2018
    https://bestlifeonline.com/japan-suicide-forest-facts/

    (Yes, the irony of the Web Site name and the author’s last name is also not lost here.)

    Really, it kind of makes sense to have such a place where people can shuffle off the mortal coil without bring others in harm’s way with falling bodies, stray bullets, or pills grabbed up by toddlers.

    Stiil, enough people see it as a solution to problems that it is obviously a leftover from Bushido Code days and definitely bespeaks a barrier to rational ways to solve problems.

    #43633

    Autumn
    Participant

    I already know about the forest, but this makes no contribution to the thrust of your position. The Sea of Trees suicides account for less that one percent of suicides in Japan. It definitely has a cultural aspect built up around it, but it’s not like suicide is more a part of contemporary Japanese culture than it is American. Even Seppuku was closer to a form of execution, historically, than suicide.

    The Golden Gate Bridge is also a popular suicide spot, enough so that they have crisis hotline phones on the bridge. Like the Sea of Trees, there is a cultural element built up around the bridge as a suicide hot spot, but that doesn’t mean that suicide is a part of American culture more so than others by any marked degree.

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