More Real Than Any God (Mr Tag)
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@Simon: Atheism is a rejection of a god belief. That’s ALL it is. It isn’t a collection of dogmatic verses or authority figures or lists of do or don’ts.
Sam Harris accurately captures this thought: “”Religion” is a nearly useless term. It’s a term like “sports”. Now there are sports like Badminton and sports like Thai Boxing, and they have almost nothing in common apart from breathing.”
For my part, I don’t (usually) see anything “meaningful” in ancient scriptures. Instead, I marvel at those who infer or empower phrases or passages as if they were “wisdom” being imparted by a Timeless Creator Of All Things.
@DrBob: maybe I knee-jerked, here. With respect, you’re doing what a lot of apologists do: playing with words. What do you mean “my faith decides how it chooses chooses to…” And “my faith is the group that compiled the thing…” And “that’s what my faith teaches.”
It sounds like you’re casting this “Faith” as an entity. Yet, you use “faith” as if it bolsters your particular set of brliefs, too.
I’m not trying to call you out unnecessarily, I just don’t quite follow how you separate faith into a collective ‘thing’ which (so it seems to me) is separate from you and the “faith” you use to support your beliefs.
The premise of the Bible – despite protestations otherwise – is faith* in magic and mysticism. There simply is no other way to avoid this elephant in the room. Consider: talking snakes, asses, & bushes and a virgin-born water-walking resurrected flying zombie whose bloody death supposedly substitutionally “atones” for mankind’s nature. To relegate belief in these to ANYthing but a complete suspension of all that is rational is intellectually dishonest. These have every mark of fairy tale and no credibility whatsoever. No word, let alone sentence, has EVER emanated from a snake, ass, or bush. This never, EVER happened. It’s preposterous to even consider it possible, let alone probable. If it’s “figurative” then this only opens up Pandora’s box of what, in that tedious book, IS or ISN’T.
To believe in such rubbish is a waste of intellect and, I’d argue, dangerous. I agree, @SimonMathews. Why not scrap the lot, stop frightening everyone with a gruesome (and completely bogus) fate for the “sins” of blasphemy or non-belief? Let’s pull this species out of that mucked up mindset. Your faith – and faith in general – isn’t a pathway to truth, @DrBob. It can’t be. If you pick and choose what to take literally or not, what to dismiss or not, you’re not exercising tenets of (your particular) faith, you’re proving that secular morality is superior to the morals often espoused in that wretchedly popular book.
*belief w/o evidence, or despite contradicting evidence
@Strega: You lucky bastard! Nine years old??? I was still getting swatted with rosaries in Catechism at 9! Growing up (and thankfully, OUT of) Catholicism was so dreary and foreboding. I used to stare in horror at the statues and artwork. I remember thinking to myself how fucking silly it all was… stand up, sit down, kneel, stand, strike your chest, bleat & repeat. I vowed to get the fuck OUT as soon as I was able. And my parents allowed this at 13. Whew! I’ve never looked back.
I did, however, succumb to the siren song of the “god-shaped hole” in my heart when I was about 26 or so. Mostly out of wanting to get married and not really thinking ANYthing through rationally, to be honest. SO crazy (if not understandable) why we often drift back to our roots and how we were raised. THIS time, though, we were CHRISTIANS…. not CATHOLICS!! hahaha!!!
The fear religion (Christianity, anyway) invokes is real, as you know. It’s such a scam to raise kids on all the LOVE Christianity (or much religion) espouses, only to Paul Harvey them (“The REST of the Story!”) when they have little social options left open to them… so they must accept the whole HELFIRE & DAMNATION horseshit or face a family and friend circle that has been carefully crafted to keep their curiosity & inquisitiveness in tow. What a terrible, horrific thing to do to kids. To ANYone, really.
I’m so glad to be free — truly free — from all of that smarmy mess. Proof that, in some way, an atheist’s words, attitude, letter, conversation, book, etc. reached me somehow. So much so that I want EVERYone to see it for what it is. I can get so accustomed to thinking rationally (at least about this topic) that it’s sometimes hard to remember what being “in it [Christianity]!” was like. I was a Born Again Holy Rollin’ Pentecostal BelEEVER, brutha! and, until I could no longer account for the inconsistencies and lack of evidence for what I was told was THERE but for which I needed FAITH, I was done in, like, 3 minutes. That’s all it took. 35 years and 3 minutes! 🙂 Better than never.
See, I’m ok going head-to-head with a fuck-face Super. I have no qualms or hesitation throwing down with them. I’m (usually, like 99%) quite polite, but I don’t pull punches. I lambasted a FB fuck-face (and still do) over this very issue (he unfriended me, but his mom & sister didn’t, so I hope they’re relaying to him every time I mention his porkface dull-witted “one-man/one-woman” horseshit.)
And, honestly, I’m not at all shy commenting on my buddy’s posts, questioning his beliefs and how they align with reality. He engages me likewise. It just floored me that he JUST CAN’T SEE how bigoted he is… while maintaining he isn’t – that he “love’s everyone with Christ’s love” and he doesn’t judge (“that’s up to god”) and all the accompanying mind-numbing Christian brainwashed bullshit. It’s as if I see this depravity that has a very personal effect on me (given my gay sons) and I think… “whoa! dude. I want you nowhere NEAR my kids if you think their love for their partner is like your love for a FUCKING PIZZA! For FUCK’S SAKE!”
I dunno. I’m sure I encounter people of this bend all the time… but to witness it ‘in person’ (so to speak) — from a buddy who is, like, in virtually every other respect, a decent guy — just wiped me out.
Am I just too fucking judgmental? Am I just behaving like a babybitch and being overly-sensitive to this? Are (some of) my beliefs equally repulsive to him? Fuck all if I know. I just know that … it’s like, he fucking BELIEVES that LGBTs aren’t equal to his Christian heterocracy. Any union other than man/woman is BY GOD “less than” .. Un fucking believable.
Well, that’s just it. This sort of thing just never came up. And, when called out on it, he dismissed it as if he was just being “funny.” Y’know, like the KKK accidentally lynching a deeply-tanned white guy would be “funny.”
It’s as if he uncovered (or I finally accepted?) what was there all along. Can you hate (or disassociate oneself from) the belief but not the believer when THIS is the kind of shit he believes?
