Who am I?

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  • June 13, 2017 at 2:48 pm #3137
    David Boots
    Participant

    I am an anti theist. Whereas I once ignored the religious I think the time has come to speak out against the intellectual dishonesty that is theism. But what sort of atheist am I? Can I assert there is no god? Look at these categories of atheists below.

    1. There is no god and I am against any form of religious belief.
    2. There is no god.
    3. There is no evidence for god.
    4. I have not seen sufficient evidence for god’s existence.
    5. I don’t believe in god.
    6. I believe there is no god.
    7. I lack belief in god.

    Who are you?

    • This topic was modified 8 years, 10 months ago by David Boots.
    June 13, 2017 at 10:31 pm #3141
    Strega
    Moderator

    How about 8. I don’t even understand the definition of god

    June 14, 2017 at 3:41 am #3152
    tom sarbeck
    Participant

    David, this is another attempt to herd cats.

    In sixty years I’ve seen no evidence for the existence of any gods and I’m living as if I will never see evidence.

     

    June 14, 2017 at 9:21 pm #3170
    Davis
    Participant

    I’m careful to avoid anti-theist and I prefer the broader term anti-theism. Anti-theist has the connotation that you are anti-people-who-believe (of which many have no choice), whereas anti-theism has the connotation of being anti-world-view-of-God-believers (and the institutions and go along with it) and not necessarily the people in this position through little fault of their own. I am not so much one for anti-theism, but instead utterly horrified by theism and its many victims.

    June 15, 2017 at 4:50 am #3176
    .
    Participant

    I don’t even recognize myself anymore…looking at all my old posts…wow…just wow…and I suddenly just can’t identify anymore. It’s really crazy.

    June 22, 2017 at 4:45 pm #3283
    Andrew Brown
    Participant

    You say so much about god. What is god?

    June 22, 2017 at 5:21 pm #3285
    Tom Sarbeck
    Participant

    What is god?
    1) A club used to beat weak-minded people into submission and then rob them.
    2) A form of artificial selection whose effects strong-minded people can nullify.

    June 23, 2017 at 1:01 am #3287
    PopeBeanie
    Moderator
    Tom Sarbeck wrote:

    What is god? 1) A club used to beat weak-minded people into submission and then rob them. 2) A form of artificial selection whose effects strong-minded people can nullify.

    #Like

    Makes much more sense than what those who invented God say!

    July 14, 2017 at 3:09 pm #3572
    Kyrani Eade
    Participant

    I think you can say any of 4 to 7. But you can’t say 1 and 2 there is no God.

    Number 3 is important. There is no evidence for God. This is however not a premise that you can use to say 1 and 2.

    There is no objective, scientific evidence for a subjective experience. But you know that you have subjective experiences. They are self-evident.

    Similarly, there is no objective, scientific evidence for God. But those who have had sufficient awakening/ raised consciousness, have an awareness of their true self as conscious being, which is spiritual nature. Their spiritual awakening leads them to know that there is God. Both spiritual nature and God are self-evident.

    There is NO intellectual dishonesty in theism and theists.

     

    July 14, 2017 at 5:53 pm #3573
    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    @KyraniEade –

    “there is no objective, scientific evidence for God.”

    “there is God. Both spiritual nature and God are self-evident.”

    – are you saying that a subjective experience is evidence of objective reality?

    A lot of people who have had spiritual awakenings say that they feel “everything is consciousness”, “everything is one”, “everything is connected” etc.

    Are you saying that being a conscious being, is spiritual?

    July 14, 2017 at 9:44 pm #3578
    PopeBeanie
    Moderator
    Kyrani Eade wrote:

    There is no objective, scientific evidence for a subjective experience. But you know that you have subjective experiences. They are self-evident.

    I agree with all of this, except that ‘scientific evidence’ (e.g. in the form of brain scans or other empirical measurements) is available, and will probably grow quit a bit in the near future.

    However, it’s not proof of any kind of a soul or God, no matter how many people say it’s “self-evident” to them. Do you automatically take Mohammad at his word wrt what he says he experienced all alone in the cave with the angel Gabriel? A lot of people do.

    July 15, 2017 at 12:11 pm #3580
    Kyrani Eade
    Participant

    Simon Paynton wrote:

    @KyraniEade – “there is no objective, scientific evidence for God.” “there is God. Both spiritual nature and God are self-evident.” – are you saying that a subjective experience is evidence of objective reality? A lot of people who have had spiritual awakenings say that they feel “everything is consciousness”, “everything is one”, “everything is connected” etc. Are you saying that being a conscious being, is spiritual?

    God and spiritual nature are not objective reality because spiritual nature is conscious being and it’s chief quality is consciousness. Consciousness is of the same essence/ likeness as God, the Supreme Being.

    Even in deep meditation (Samadhi), which is a far lesser state than enlightenment, both subject and object disappear. There is no experiencer nor objected experienced, only experiencing remains. So only consciousness remains. There is a feeling that everything is consciousness and everything is connected but I don’t agree that everything is one, in the sense that all conscious beings are one.

    There is Universal (non-local ) consciousness but there is also individual (local ) consciousness.

    However your question really goes further because there is an objective, external reality and subjective experience, as in ordinary, everyday life, is evidence of that but, we need to see the bigger picture.

    Firstly, I do not believe that there is any such thing as “human mind”. There is only the One Mind or the Mind of the Supreme Being. Evidence: if you enter a meditative state of no thoughts, where is mind? There is none.

    Secondly ideas are not in business for themselves. There needs to be a conscious being, agency, to call forth ideas from the Mind or perceive an idea called forth by some other related conscious being and presented to you in Mind (telepathy.. dare I mention the word!).

    Thirdly, if there was only a material / physical reality out there and we were only meat robots then we would not be able to make sense of the reality in which we incarnate, let alone experience and interact in complex ways.

    The fact that we have a subjective experience, means that we are aware of / perceive through the senses (also through direct mental means, e.g., remote viewing), which require consciousness, but we go further because we are able to understand meaning and make sense of what we experience.

    So the reality we experience in everyday life, is a Creation (in religious terms) or a simulation/ hologram (in terms of physics). This means that matter is really information. I see it as information consciously upheld in the One Mind by the Supreme Being. This means then that there is information and the rules that govern that information (including meaning) and we as conscious beings must be able to perceive this information/rules/meaning or let’s say “behind the scenes activity” in order to arrive at a subjective experience. Sensory input is not enough.

    So subjective experience, which is complex, is evidence of an external, objective reality in which we all participate.

    July 15, 2017 at 12:31 pm #3581
    Kyrani Eade
    Participant
    PopeBeanie wrote:
    Kyrani Eade wrote:

    There is no objective, scientific evidence for a subjective experience. But you know that you have subjective experiences. They are self-evident.

    I agree with all of this, except that ‘scientific evidence’ (e.g. in the form of brain scans or other empirical measurements) is available, and will probably grow quit a bit in the near future.

    Brain scans do not give any evidence of subjective experience, nor consciousness. We can see the neurons firing in different areas when the subjects eat, drink, look, move etc., but none of this is evidence of the experience. The hard problem of consciousness is not solvable by science, though there are many trying to find grounds for it in the material.

    PopeBeanie: However, it’s not proof of any kind of a soul or God, no matter how many people say it’s “self-evident” to them. Do you automatically take Mohammad at his word wrt what he says he experienced all alone in the cave with the angel Gabriel? A lot of people do.

    Subjective experience is also self-evident but only the person knows it for themselves. There is no proof or evidence of God or spiritual nature/ soul etc., that one can demonstrate to others that these exist. They are not material. Science can only deal with the material. “If you can’t measure it, it doesn’t exist” is what all my lecturers at university claimed.

    As for Mohammad and other prophets, my attitude is that we have to read the records left to us with care. All religious texts, in my opinion, have been corrupted, either intentionally or unintentionally (e.g., through translation).

    So while I fully accept Mohammad in that there is only One God, I doubt very much that he ever said that anyone dying for the cause of Justice got given 75 virgins in paradise. It is laughable. Who ever added that didn’t have a clue.

    Same also for the words of Jesus, which say “love your enemies, turn the other cheek, do good to those that harm you, forgive enemies” etc. You only need to see the contradictions. When Jesus went into the temple and saw the trading that was going on, he whipped the priests and told them what for! And he sure got their backs up because they sided with the Romans in having him convicted, not only of sedition but a whole lot of their own grievances.

     

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by Kyrani Eade.
    July 15, 2017 at 12:38 pm #3583
    Kyrani Eade
    Participant

    I don’t know why the reply ended up on a grey background. Could someone advise me on the use of the editor please. Thanks.

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