Attack on Islam

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Unseen 2 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #26527

    Davis
    Participant

    In Chinese Xing Xiang, a Turkic Muslim region there is an extreme attack on Islam by the communist government who go as far as banning beards, disrupting prayer and putting millions through brain washing camp to erase Islam…at least as much as possible. The excuse is “radical terrorism” but that’s bullshit considering they don’t do the same in Tibet which has a history of terrorism. Because the whole world watches Tibet and many celebrities are very concerned about the place. Not so in Xing Xiang. While I believe in very strong secularism I cannot possibly support what China is doing and I find it outrageous. What puzzles me most is the silence from the Muslim world. The Taliban, that spews hate against the West for its “attack” on Islam has nothing to say about a full out assault by China. Radicals blew up a cafe in Denmark. ..this is a country that hasn’t participated in war in Muslim countries, guarantees religious protection and not a single politician and next to no citizens have any desire to take their religion away from them. Where are the bombs at Urumqis train station or on a bunch of innocent civilians at a market? Iran…who places a fatwa against many countries that could only be accused in the most indirect sense of attacking Islam have issued none to China. Most of the West have been silent because of trade however Iran and Afghanistan have sacraficed trade with huge markets that “interfere with Islam”. Luckily there hasn’t been violent terrorism in Xing Xiang. I hope no bombs go off. But I cannot figure out the slightest reason why there is such silence over China. What gives here?

    #26529

    _Robert_
    Participant

    I am not surprised. The “Muslim world” has no central authority and has been at war with itself from the very beginning. The Saudis almost took the pile of bodies and rubble that is now Syria, but Russia stepped in with Iranian allies to save the Assad regime.

    I expect Russia (plus a near nuclear capable Iran) and China (plus a near nuclear capable N. Korea) will be flexing their growing muscles in the near future.

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  _Robert_.
    #26586

    Ivy
    Participant

    But I cannot figure out the slightest reason why there is such silence over China. What gives here?

    Because they’re smart enough to know not to fuck with China LOL! To me at least that’s blaringly obvious.

    #26591

    Davis
    Participant

    Because they’re smart enough to know not to fuck with China LOL! To me at least that’s blaringly obvious.

    It’s not that simple. China has grown militarily but they hardly have as much intellligence capabilities nor the kind of illegal special opps or surgical strike experience as the united states. The point is, Al Qaida fucked with the US and they were ultimately decimated with a tiny shell of itself left to do some trouble making in non-Western parts of the world. Bin Laden was found and shot. Other Jihaddists who helped blow up European airports or train stations had their centre of operations pummeled with bombs and loads of their accomplices rotting in Jail. China has no military presence in most of the Middle East or Central Asia. I have no doubt they could eventually make some people pay…but it would take a lot longer than for the US or EU to do it and I doubt it would be as painful. My point is…countries have had the will to sacrifice economic and even military loss by defying or terrorizing America and the EU. And they’ve done it proudly. Partially based on the rhetoric of religious offense. And yet for a group like ISIS that has little to lose pissing off China financially or politically nor living in an area where China has military presence, and remember China is a country actually totally fucking around with Islam…it’s nothing short of astounding there are no terrosist incidents in Xing Xang…not even one.

    #26641

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    China has no military presence in most of the Middle East or Central Asia.

    That could be part of the answer. Strong Western influence and military in their home turf is one reasons they publicly justify jihad, and can motivate jihadism with a visibly present enemy. It’s also easier for goverments in Muslim countries to point to the West as a source of strife. And there’s the history of colonialism nearby, if not in their particular history.

    I also think Ivy has a point. Jihadists at some point have to choose their battles based on how effective they think they can be. Aren’t China’s borders and watch on (say) tourists pretty tight? (I don’t actually know, but am presuming.) Their internet certainly is locked up, and I doubt that even home grown jihad has much chance to take off without motivation from the internet.

    I’ll appreciate any corrections or knowledge about this. In the long term, China might not be able to remain immune, as (I expect) even the typical Chinese people could get restless once the newness of economic successes wears off, and they have more leisure time to think about other aspects of their lives, the rest of the world, and any internal plights. Many of the most powerful jihadists after all are well educated and have access to monetary resources and communications with comrades, and feel strongly about converting over to a life of big-picture purpose.

    #26642

    Davis
    Participant

    Strong Western influence and military in their home turf…

    Belgium has no military presence in Syria/Iraq/Jordan/Palestine. Nor does Denmark. It’s hard for me to understand why you’d blow up a café in  Copenhagen or blow up a metro train in Brussels (where a third of the population is muslim) unless it was for a general sense that their sphere of the world was an abstract threat to Islam. China takes that prize right now, but okay, I can give you a tiny bit of leeway here because terrorism is irrational and there is such a thing as guilt by association. Spain’s participation in the Iraq war was heavily protested by Spaniards, was short lived and they pulled out quickly. 15 years later, despite no military presence and strong opposition to further military intervention, a near absence of any engagement of any kind with the region and a relatively strong openness to Muslim migrants compared with the rest of the EU, they faced three bouts of terrible terrorist attacks. They have no reason to attack Spain except for the irrational fear that they are a threat to Islam. There are also attacks that have happened around the world that are unmistakably linked to mistreatment of fellow Muslims. For example in India (where the Muslim minority don’t always have that much respect) to several East African countries with Muslim minorities being mistreated.

    That there isn’t rampant anarchic terrorism in China isn’t a surprise. It’s the absolute complete absence of terrorist activity in a region super repressive to Muslims and offensive to Islam is the surprise. And it’s puzzling.

    #26643

    _Robert_
    Participant

    general sense that their sphere of the world was an abstract threat to Islam

    Perhaps as they consume extreme Islamic hate media they simply grow to detest the liberalism that surrounds them. They are full of shit, like the WTC hijacker-murderers who visited strip clubs before their big jihad day. They enjoy the freedoms of the West and then feel all guilty about it and have to make amends.

    It’s the absolute complete absence of terrorist activity in a region super repressive to Muslims

    I’m sure they are being watched closely. Chinese prison camps for anti-revolutionists await.

    #26646

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    They have no reason to attack Spain except for the irrational fear that they are a threat to Islam.

    Could it sometimes be just a matter of finding the easiest way to make a big splash? “Hey World, look at what we can do for the glory of Allah!”. Along with “Hey fellow Muslims, join us in this divine quest!”.

    #26647

    Davis
    Participant

    the easiest way to make a big splash?

    There may be a little truth to that. But honestly…if a terrorist bomb went off in China (anywhere) and most especially in XingXiang it would create a global media storm. Europe has a terrorist bomb or a public car trampling frequently. There are lots of enormous cities in China with zero history of civil violence, nobody expecting extremism and a huge concentration of innocent victims all packed together during rush hour.

    But let’s change track a little bit here. Where are all the defenders of religious freedom you normally hear from in the US and to a much lesser extent in Germany/UK/Netherlands. I haven’t heard a bloody peep from them.

    #26649

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Where are all the defenders of religious freedom you normally hear from in the US and to a much lesser extent in Germany/UK/Netherlands.

    They need a  Dalai Lama type leader…he is pretty good at energizing celebrities.  Did you know that celebrities decide the causes I need to care about? This is why Bill Maher wants Oprah to run for president.

    Hitchens was no fan of the Lama however. When I see a meme of the wise Lama, I can’t help hearing Hitchens’ booming voice as he gives the wise one “The Mother Theresa Treatment”.

    #26652

    Unseen
    Participant

    There are too many bad things going on in the world.

    What puzzles me most is the silence from the Muslim world. The Taliban, that spews hate against the West for its “attack” on Islam has nothing to say about a full out assault by China. Radicals blew up a cafe in Denmark. ..this is a country that hasn’t participated in war in Muslim countries, guarantees religious protection and not a single politician and next to no citizens have any desire to take their religion away from them. Where are the bombs at Urumqis train station or on a bunch of innocent civilians at a market? Iran…who places a fatwa against many countries that could only be accused in the most indirect sense of attacking Islam have issued none to China. Most of the West have been silent because of trade however Iran and Afghanistan have sacraficed trade with huge markets that “interfere with Islam”. Luckily there hasn’t been violent terrorism in Xing Xiang. I hope no bombs go off. But I cannot figure out the slightest reason why there is such silence over China. What gives here?

    Most of the rest of the world, no matter how poor, seems like everybody has a cell phone. A CHINESE-made cell phone. China supplies them with cheap technology several orders of magnitude cheaper than we in the west pay for iPhones or Androids.  If someone whose total annual income is $1200 can own a cell phone, the phone must be nearly free. Phones are their window on the world nowadays much more than TV.

    Actually, China helps a lot of Third World countries. they have a good (if not valid) reason to give China a pass.

    Most non-Muslims hate Islam, for good reasons, and even if they don’t take the “the only good Muslim…” view, they have little motivation to give a shit if they are wiped off the face of the Earth. And in a lot of countries, just putting food on the table and keeping a roof over their head and having clean drinking water is a far bigger concern than whatever the f*** is going on in China.

    China has had 40 years of average 10% growth (compare to the United States’ 3%). You’d better believe that Third World people’s—at least outside the Muslim world—admire China and see China as the future. The West’s obsession with Freedom isn’t such a big deal there.

    How much of what goes on elsewhere is our business? And when do we need to actually do something about it? Presumably, the Nazi Holocaust would make all of us so sick in heart that we’d feel a need to intervene, but we can’t get drawn in to every battle. If not for WW2, I wonder if we’d have sent our boys to try to save the Jews from the ovens. What do YOU think?

    Here in the United States we often hear “We can’t be the policemen of the world.” Recently, we thought that was Trump’s position. Yet, we are in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, and he seems to be trying to provoke Iran into giving him an excuse to rain fire down on Iran.

    Finally, Davis, please learn to make paragraphs. It makes reading so much easier and more people will read your lengthy posts.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  Unseen.
    #26654

    Davis
    Participant

    China supplies them with cheap technology several orders of magnitude cheaper than we in the west pay for iPhones or Androids.

    I think this is a pretty dubious argument for four reasons.

    1. China is not going to stop selling its tecnology to a country because an extremist group in that country committed an attack. Okay, if there were monthly attacks and their government did nothing about it, I can imagine some kind of pressure being placed on that government…

    2. Even if blowing yourself up in the name of Islam meant your fellow citizens would have to pay slightly more to get cheap phones…terrorist cells don’t give a shit. They are full of both rational and extremely irrational and wreckless stupidity. Multiple terrorist groups in the Middle East do things in the name of protecting Islam that lead to embargos placed on them by the US and the EU which lead to higher prices and economic decline. I don’t think that’s comparable to worrying about a cheap phone. I don’t believe this is a concern that pops into a terrorists mind.

    3. Cheap phones would still be accessible. In the time I spent in Iran, Syria and Lebanon, it was common knowledge that goods can be easily bought if there is an embargo or not. China being angry with Syria is not going to stop Syrians from getting their hands on cheap phones…and it’s not going to stop a lunatic terrorist cell from defending their muslim brothers.

    4. Terrorist cells in Syria operate totally independently of their government. One group doesn’t think about the future logistical and political problems of the country over all when they engage in human atrocities and do what is necessary to gain religious supremacy. ISIS was an economic disaster zone and was cut off from most of the world and yet they still maintained destructive terrorist madness for months.

    It is not irrational to ask the question…why has Xingjiang avoided a single terrorist act. There are some speculative explanations that “might” explain it but those explanations completely go against the history and culture of modern Jihaddist terrorism.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  Davis.
    #26657

    _Robert_
    Participant

    It is very simple. They would if they could. The Chinese track your daily movement using your own cell phones that act like GPS beacons. They track all technology purchases, energy usage, travel abroad, etc. They pick you up for “questioning.” I am sure that is fun. There is no privacy. China is a land of surveillance and informants.

    Islam is a religion of attrition. It is only a matter of time.

    #26658

    Davis
    Participant

    It is only a matter of time.

    Pretty much. If a group of psychopaths can find a way to all come from muslim countries, train as pilots, log in the hours over the years, avoid suspicion and keep quiet the whole time…and eventually one day fly those planes into the pentagon and WTC, they can get around the great digital wall of china and their surveillance state. For lunatics, it’s always just a matter of time.

    #26659

    Unseen
    Participant

    It is only a matter of time.

    Pretty much. If a group of psychopaths can find a way to all come from muslim countries, train as pilots, log in the hours over the years, avoid suspicion and keep quiet the whole time…and eventually one day fly those planes into the pentagon and WTC, they can get around the great digital wall of china and their surveillance state. For lunatics, it’s always just a matter of time.

    Welcome to the world of asymmetical warfare. I wonder what Trump and his “chickenhawks” think will happen if they attack Iran. Yes, they could almost certainly claim a military victory, but what then? Another 9/11-type event?

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