CANADA: The Friendly Fascist State

[UnseenParticipant]

Of course, there’s nothing close to parity with Hitlerian Germany, Stalin’s Russia, or Mao’s China, but PM Justin Trudeau and his government have been a wee bit overbearing lately. Doing stuff that Trump can only wish he had done.

The following quote is from a morning newsletter I receive on weekdays from the Redacted Youtube and Rumble chasnnels:

The Canadian government blacklisted companies that were sympathetic to the Trucker Convoy and made no attempts to restrict who saw this list, according to new reports.

Worse, the government sent this list to foreign banks in order to thwart businesses who they thought were guilty of “wrong think.” The list included 201 companies that had shown themselves to be sympathetic to the Freedom Convoy. 

The report accuses the office of Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland of distributing this blacklist, raising further questions about privacy and government intervention.

Under the Emergencies Act, the Trudeau government gave itself the right to seize property including bank accounts. No one has been held accountable for that despite public hearings about it. 

[AutumnParticipant]

The Canadian government didn’t seize bank accounts: it temporarily froze them (seizing, in this context, would mean that the government or government agencies took possession of the funds). This is after streets in front of Parliament had been blockaded for a full month. Money was being promised to the protestors so they could remain indefinitely. It was also going to be used to pay fines for vehicles getting citations or facing towing charges.

The police didn’t intentionally trample a woman with a horse. They were riding through in file and two people fell into the path of the horses (there’s video). One suffered a broken clavicle. Whether there was negligence on the part of the police or not, I can’t say, but let’s not make this into something it’s not.

The blockade was handled with kid gloves as far as Canadian policing goes. I can’t imagine many governments would be that tolerant of their roads being blockaded for an entire month in a major city (major by Canadian standards).

[UnseenParticipant]

@autumn

You missed the part about blacklisting companies?

[DavisModerator]

Unseen, you have officially fallen down the rabbit hole of the internet. You seem to simply swallow whatever certain people tell you without critically evaluating things for yourself. Your COVID conspiracy nuttery was sad, the blowing neo-naziism in Ukraine all out of proportion was scary, and the hyper generalisations of “wokism” was a red-flag, you’re now now taking outlandish ramblings of pro-Canadian-trucker-protestors verbatim and comparing Trudeau’s behaviour as more outrageous than that of Trump? Did you not take a moment to find other perspectives, do even elementary fact-checks? Have you lost all sense of evaluating claims and critical thinking skills?

[UnseenParticipant]

@davis

I’m posting to stimulate spirited discussion, not advance science.

[RichRaelianParticipant]

Hi! How did Canada become a fascist state?

[AutumnParticipant]

Unseen wrote:

@autumn You missed the part about blacklisting companies?

I didn’t miss it. It’s largely unintelligible. The federal government, at the time, wanted to cut off funds to the illegal blockade. This meant businesses and individuals who were funnelling money into the convoy had their assets temporarily frozen. The feds pressured banks, crowdfunding companies, and businesses managing crypto wallets to freeze accounts. Right wing media sources here deemed that a ‘blacklist’, but apart from the temporary freezing of assets, it’s not clear what ‘blacklist’ is supposed to mean in practice. Most of the accounts were frozen for a period of between one to two weeks.

One to two weeks is a long time, especially for individuals. I don’t know the total number of individuals who had accounts frozen. I’ve seen figures of around 250 accounts for 50-60 individuals. There is probably a more accurate figure out there. Some of the people who had accounts frozen where blockade organizers themselves such as Tamara Lich.

[DavisModerator]

Rich, it would seem that when a government reacts to a long, highly disruptive protest at the gates of the democratic institutions, which in part was explicitly under the mission of “getting rid of a democratic government”, in reaction to something the overwhelming majority of Canadians had no problem with and violated no rights or laws, by taking relatively light actions compared with what would happen just about anywhere else (that is, a scrape here or there, some ticketed vehicles, temporarily frozen assets, people charged under law for breaking laws) … is somehow fascist and totalitarian extremism. I feel so sorry for Canadians living under such fear, terror and lack of freedom. If only they lived down south, in a country with a lower index on democratic health, freedom of the press, democratic representation, police violence, corruption and toxic politics.

[UnseenParticipant]

You guys are missing the point. What was the protest about? It was about a draconian program to require vaccination. Most of the protesting truckers were not there as vaccine deniers. Indeed, somewhere around 75%-80% had had their shots. They were there in solidarity with the truckers who had made the decision not to become vaccinated. Whether vaccines work or not (I believe they do, generally, though these seem to be terribly flawed in some ways) the question is similar to the one over abortion: where does the state’s interest in a citizen’s body end?

[_Robert_Participant]

Canada is draconian for taking known safety measures that saved millions of lives, but Russia is justified for invading and murdering. You conservatives have weaponized stupidity.  We are fortunate our grandparents weren’t such entitled morons when mandatory vaccinations were required before you went to grade school. People who couldn’t even locate Germany on a globe are experts on fascism and everything else now.

[UnseenParticipant]

Davis wrote:

Rich, it would seem that when a government reacts to a long, highly disruptive protest at the gates of the democratic institutions, which in part was explicitly under the mission of “getting rid of a democratic government”, in reaction to something the overwhelming majority of Canadians had no problem with and violated no rights or laws, by taking relatively light actions compared with what would happen just about anywhere else (that is, a scrape here or there, some ticketed vehicles, temporarily frozen assets, people charged under law for breaking laws) … is somehow fascist and totalitarian extremism. I feel so sorry for Canadians living under such fear, terror and lack of freedom. If only they lived down south, in a country with a lower index on democratic health, freedom of the press, democratic representation, police violence, corruption and toxic politics.

The question for Canadians, posed by the truckers, is how much control over one’s own body and health belongs to the central government? If they can force a citizen to get vaccinated with a vaccine about which there were and actually still are serious doubts by serious professionals, what other normally voluntary medical procedures can a national government require? or deny? Would mandates regarding abortions be totally out of the picture, for example.

[UnseenParticipant]

_Robert_ wrote:

Canada is draconian for taking known safety measures that saved millions of lives, but Russia is justified for invading and murdering. You conservatives have weaponized stupidity. We are fortunate our grandparents weren’t such entitled morons when mandatory vaccinations were required before you went to grade school. People who couldn’t even locate Germany on a globe are experts on fascism and everything else now.

I’m very left-of-center. Russia’s invasion was set up by the West. Ukraine was abusing and engaging in the oppression and sometimes murdering of it’s large Eastern population of Russian-speaking citizens. In addition, it was regarded as the most corrupt government in Europe. Even more corrupt, though on a smaller scale, than Russia. Even now, much of the armaments we gift them end up being sold on the black market to ISIS and various terrorist enterprises.

I can find Germany on a globe though I might have to get out a magnifying glass to locate Estonia. And I can tell shit from Shinola.

[_Robert_Participant]

Ahh yes, there are so many who walk and talk like a duck who aren’t ducks. Right. Putin had no choice. It is so tough being the richest man in the world. He’s so concerned about his people. What a foolish belief.

[AutumnParticipant]

Unseen wrote:

You guys are missing the point. What was the protest about? It was about a draconian program to require vaccination.

In its infancy, it was about border policy. At the time, Canada and the US had similar policies regarding vaccination and quarantine requirements. For truckers crossing the border, this would make their job impractical to the point of impossible if they weren’t vaccinated. What the protest became was a bit of a clusterfuck of issues, mostly related to vaccines and masking, but also straying into other areas.

Most COVID measures were under the jurisdiction of the provinces and territories, not the federal government. The pandemic highlighted that all levels of government were unprepared for a pandemic response. On balance, Canada had a middling performance. ‘Draconian’ is a rather dramatic word to use. If we want to get equivocal, then perhaps we wouldn’t refer to the blockade as a blockade or a protest, but rather as insurgents, or terrorists, or a coup. Or we could just not engage in hyperbole.

The question for Canadians, posed by the truckers, is how much control over one’s own body and health belongs to the central government? If they can force a citizen to get vaccinated with a vaccine about which there were and actually still are serious doubts by serious professionals, what other normally voluntary medical procedures can a national government require? or deny? Would mandates regarding abortions be totally out of the picture, for example.

That question would be a non-sequitur. We didn’t have mandatory vaccinations. However, in some professions, people were going to be forced to choose between their job and their vaccination status either as a matter of policy or practicality. Given the significance of employment, that would ordinarily be coercive. But it has to be balanced against the reason for employment policies. Were vaccination requirements bona fide, and if so, was accommodation possible without undue hardship? There is no truism we can apply here. It’s specific to the facts of this situation.

[UnseenParticipant]

_Robert_ wrote:

Ahh yes, there are so many who walk and talk like a duck who aren’t ducks. Right. Putin had no choice. It is so tough being the richest man in the world. He’s so concerned about his people. What a foolish belief.

“No choice”? How about “Best choice”? or just not rolling over and playing dead?

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