Cave Miracle

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  • #10058

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    From Wiktionary:

    miracle (plural miracles)
    1.An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin. Many religious beliefs are based on miracles.An example of a miracle associated with Muhammad is the splitting of the moon.

    2.A fortunate outcome that prevails despite overwhelming odds against it.

    3.An awesome and exceptional example of something

    In my WordWeb dictionary, the divine-less definition is listed before the divineful definition.

    I could look further, in other dictionaries, but how much further might we need to take this?

    #10059

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Yes there is the divine-less miracle in our lexicon.  The derivation of the word is however religious.  It is easy to imagine how miracle could expand in definition into a secular against all odds or a surprising and exceptional sumpin or udder.

    But Bellen’s use of miracle is not too difficult to divine. (punny ha?)   All of us except perhaps you have interpreted it in the religious sense.

    #10062

    Strega
    Moderator

    Against the odds is probably a better description, but it doesn’t convey as much emotion as the term ‘miracle’. And there’s no antonym for ‘miracle’ that I can think of.  It’s a bloody miracle I didn’t miss the train the other day, seeing as I left it to the last minute to leave.

    The cave boys were rescued. Lots of people get rescued, but don’t make the news.  As someone pointed out above, confirmation bias is very intertwined with the term ‘miracle’ when viewed through the eyes of the religious, which might explain atheists aversion to the term.

    #10063

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Antonym: expected, predictable, mundane, secularly unexceptional….

    I pointed out confirmation bias. It is both annoying and  INSANE seeing a person in center of death and destruction proclaiming…IT IS A MIRACLE, GOD LOVES ME, SHE REALLY REALLY LOVES ME! I think many atheists get a first hand account of how religion blinds the duped.  Nine gazillion people may have died in a natural disaster but she was saved.

    A few years ago in bible belt after a tornado wrecked a town but one home stood in the middle of the devastation a woman was interviewed.  The newscaster tossed her a pancake over the middle of the plate.  Instead of saying …oh it is a miracle my family and my home was spared she said sumpin along da line…oh no i am an atheist i dont think it is a miracle at all…

    #10064

    Here is that atheist. Let’s all judge her 🙂

    #10066

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    Reg, I actually find that video to be inspiring. 🙂

    #10086

    Davis
    Participant

    Pope, just because you cannot relate to the offense…doesn’t mean it’s not offensive. you cannot always choose to feel offended…and there is nothing wrong with that. Men towards women or heterosexuals towards homosexuals also make comments which may not seem offensive, but when repeated endlessly…a small one will eventually trigger a deep offense…and I defy anyone to deal with relentless chauvenism, “funny-non-offensive-gay-jokes” or religious comments for those living in an opressive religious enviroment … to not develop the feeling of offense.

    I’m not offended by the “it was a miracle” comment…I wasn’t there, didn’t participate in it and I can mostly handle religious comments. But the family of the diver who died and many of the Thai rescuers (almost all atheists) would not appreciate having their work, risk, time and planning reduced to a God-driven-miracle. You don’t see the similarity between a “only praying will keep you alive” and “God sent those divers to save those boys” but it still reduces a personal problem to the infusion of someone elses religion characterising it in a way that devalues the world view of others, their struggles, their achievements, their fears etc.

    It’s always okay to be offended. What’s not okay is to be an asshole when you’re offended and scream murder without explaining yourself. That is the offense problem amongst post-modernists, severe SJWs, intersectionality-nutcases on the left and the persecution complex of American christians and many American men have…on the right. Being offended and expressing it is not the problem. The problem is these people screetching and accusing and whining and shaming and twitter bashing and not discussing anything properly nor explaining.

    #10123

    .
    Participant

    I wasn’t trying to be offensive, just forget it.

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