Cave Miracle

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This topic contains 22 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  . 4 months ago.

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  • #10030

    .
    Participant

    The Thailand rescue of the boys soccer team and their coach was nothing short of miraculous.

     

    I truly do believe that was a miracle

    #10032

    _Robert_
    Participant

    The family of the dead Thai Navy Seal diver might disagree.

    #10033

    Davis
    Participant

    This kind of thinking Belle, is first, quite an insult to the dead navy seal diver as Robert masterfully pointed out. And then of course the doctor, you know, the one who gave up his vacation to risk his life to swim to the boys and stay with him for three days, and was instruimental in making them strong enough to swim out in the right order, his father died while he waited to be the last to swim out.

    It is also an insult to the literally thousands and thousands of people who put in tireless endless bottomless hours of work and sweat and crushing nerves and fear…and the meticulous planning and the bravery of both the divers who helped them and the boys who plunged into the dark. What it came down to, was the work and consultation of thousands, the resources and attention of millions and the bravrey of individuals. God or the universe or whatever-the-hell  deserves ZERO of the credit. The

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  Davis.
    #10037

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    If it’s an insult, I’m sure it’s not intentional. Taking an objective view of a subjective observation, I’ll just say that ignoring the background costs of “miraculous” events is quite common, e.g. when the surviver of a natural disaster that kills a dozen others thanks God anyway.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  PopeBeanie. Reason: had to lower my hyperbole to a more reasonable level there
    #10043

    JadeBlackOlive
    Participant

    No, its not!

    The skill, expertise, & bravery of many divers & medical people who organized & carried out the rescue is what did it! One diver was from right here in BC & everyone here is very proud that he took it upon himself, among the 90 rescuers, to help.

    A miracle would be if the boys had suddenly materialized safely outside the caves with no ill effects at all.

     

     

    #10044

    It would have been a miracle if the water in the cave had parted so that those trapped could have walked out. But we all know such things never happen. Thankfully a bunch of cooperative and highly skilled professionals came to the rescue with a well thought out and well executed plan. Who is Saman Kunan?

    #10045

    .
    Participant

    I agree with ALL of you 100%. I mean really.

    What are the odds that one of those 7 highly trained and skilled divers who have that level of expertise from the UK out of the 7.5 Billion people on this planet were within a close enough mile radius to be right around the corner (already in Thailand)….

    If they hadn’t intervened immediately and took control of that operation we would absolutely not have had the same outcome and the unfortunate death of Saman Kunan proved that.

    That to me is what was miraculous.

    #10046

    .
    Participant

    One or two more days delay even would have made a difference in outcome I think.

    #10047

    A few more days and it probably would have been too late. That is why it was a well executed plan. Around the world someone drowns every 30 seconds, over 1.2 million a year. (Sorry I don’t have the source of that statistic to hand). About 180 people drowned in Japan during flooding this week. It is just random who lives or dies.

    #10049

    Davis
    Participant

    If it’s an insult, I’m sure it’s not intentional.

    Just as when an atheist is likely to die from cancer and people tell you they are praying for you and its all in God’s hand…is quite similar. Even when you ask them to stop they keep doing it. It may not be intentional but it is still demeaning to many and grossly offensive to others.

    #10050

    Fuck that is what I say , intentionally.

    #10053

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Bellen, that is just a form of confirmation bias.  Those inclined to agency and mysticism select factors suggesting a divine hand.  Concomitantly they select out factors that SCREAM reality.

    #10055

    Davis
    Participant

    Indeed Reg. 180 Japanese people drowning in flooded water. The miracle is the shocking awesomeness of God doing something good for people, saving their lives at the last moment or bringing them fortuitous luck against the odds. The bad luck stuff…that’s God working in mysterious ways (or maybe they didn’t pray enough).

    A very badly timed death, say one where three different safety precautions all failed at once and a 16 year old famous actress’s elevator fell down a shaft to her death…is just as incredible a dose of luck (bad luck this time), just as much incredible as a plane landing safely in the ocean. It is really mindblowing that plane landed…and so doubtful it was just about luck or chance. but people seem to recognise the inevitability with bad luck. It’s a tragedy. They happen. It’s a game of odds. Someone has to die in a rare elevator accident eventually. Or struck down by lightening twice. Hey…these things occur.

    But you only hear about the hand of the divine with the nice things, the feel good, the sweet children surviving a near tragedy. When a school of kindergarteners sets on fire because of a freak accident near impossible to hapen though…the divine hand is not to be found. “Oh that is so devastating! People too often die in fires. Now who can we blame. Not God. The city mayor or the board of education or the last inspector should lose their head. We want his blood! God is rarely called to the witness stand.

    #10056

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    Davis wrote:
    Just as when an atheist is likely to die from cancer and people tell you they are praying for you and its all in God’s hand…is quite similar. Even when you ask them to stop they keep doing it. It may not be intentional but it is still demeaning to many and grossly offensive to others.

    I don’t see the similarity running very deep, and I choose not to feel offended.  I didn’t take Belen to mean “divine intervention”, or “curses to atheists”. @Belen can correct me if I’m wrong.

    I think we can agree that not God, but the diver deserves a hero’s recognition for losing his life, and “divine intervention” fell short the minute those kids got trapped and the minute the diver died.

    #10057

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Pope, not curses to atheists, but divine intervention indeed.  What else is a miracle?

     

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