Conservatives say that Putin doesn't fear Biden because…

[UnseenParticipant]

…Biden is weak. But what would a strong Biden look like?

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

A strong Biden would admit his mistake closing the Keystone XL pipeline, let the oil flow, then let oil companies send that Light Sweet Crude on ships to Ukraine and all of Europe. No war boners required, just awe Putin into backing down with the sheer might of our caché with trade.

[—Participant]

I don’t really get these sorts of perceptions. This is a conflict that started in the Obama era and continued clean through the Trump administration. If memory serves, Putin wasn’t afraid to thumb his nose at the US under Bush Junior’s run either. Has any recent US president seemed all that strong with relation to Russia?

Most of the responses in this day and age are going to come in the form of economic sanctions. But I suppose the issue with the sanctions is even if it results in diminishing quality of life for the average Russian resident, will they connect it with Russia’s foreign policy? And if they do, what will the public do even if they turn blame to their government? Vote him out? Sadly, it may be the most we can hope for with sanctions is the promise of ending them can be leveraged for political gain on Putin’s side.

But really, what nation is going to rush to put boots on the ground against Russia these days? What political party is champing at the bit for the disaster that would be?

[Belle RoseParticipant]

I think Biden is incapable of being strong.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Autumn,

I don’t really get these sorts of perceptions. This is a conflict that started in the Obama era and continued clean through the Trump administration. If memory serves, Putin wasn’t afraid to thumb his nose at the US under Bush Junior’s run either. Has any recent US president seemed all that strong with relation to Russia?

True enough. The Little Bush Boy said he actually looked into the “soul” of Putin and found him to be “a good man.”

I just wonder where The Little Bush Boy got his Soul-O-Meter to discern this. I haven’t seen it in the “As Seen On TV” section of stores or seen any Bell & Howell or BulbHead ads for it. Maybe the Soul-O-Meter is a Mike Lindell creation.

Obama knuckled under to the Russians, as evidenced by his remark on a hot mic with President Dimitry Medvedev that he needed space from Putin and that after his second Election, he would havex”more flexibility.”

Depending what his mood was at the moment, Trump also expressed a love for strong men like Putin. The Trumpistas who infiltrated the G.O.P. have turned it on it’s head. It’s no longer the Barry Goldwater/Ronald Reagan Party that gives the hairy eyeball to the Russian Bear Ivan and some Trumpistas positively idolize Russia and Putin.

A firm stance that wins without fighting is what’s needed, but no one in the position to take the stance can or would do it.

[DavisModerator]

A politicians foremost job is getting into power, second is staying in power, third is doing some of the things they originally wanted to do. People don’t seem to realise this applies to ALL politicians…not just Trump. The only exception with Trump was that he only gave a shit about 1 and 2 and had no 3 at all.

Biden is capable of being strong if it serves 1, 2 or 3 in that order. If threatening an all out trade war with Russia will keep him from accomplishing 1, 2 or 3 he will not do it. Definitely the case with putting troops in Ukraine. I don’t know what any US president would gain from that in achieving 1 or 2 and it is even dubious it would accomplish any of their important number 3s.

With a perpetual filibustering senate and a US populace that seems to perpetually hate any president that is elected…it is hard to imagine what else Biden can do other than what he is doing.

If you are not analysing any politicians moves through the lens of (and in this order)

1. Getting in power

2. Staying in power

3. Getting around to doing the things they wanted to do prioritising things that aren’t most people’s priorities

You are ALWAYS completely missing the point.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by  Davis.

[_Robert_Participant]

Better get started on that fallout shelter. Like things aren’t shitty enough that dickhead has to make a war and our ex-president dickhead thinks it is such a clever thing to do. Fuckall.

[UnseenParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Unseen, A strong Biden would admit his mistake closing the Keystone XL pipeline, let the oil flow, then let oil companies send that Light Sweet Crude on ships to Ukraine and all of Europe. No war boners required, just awe Putin into backing down with the sheer might of our caché with trade.

You are that rarity, that unicorn, that black swan…a conservative atheist.

You and your right-wing buddies are obsessed with this pipeline which was proposed by a Canadian company with a poor environmental record, would run through fragile areas with species fighting off extinction, potentially polluting waterways used for both fishing and drinking water. All that plus the federal government in approving the plan violated the 1851 Treaty of Ft Laramie and 1855 Lame Bull Treaty, in which the US committed to protect against future harm to the tribes’ natural resources.

But we get it: conservatives don’t care what harm a project might cause, what commitments might be broken, if there’s money to be made.

There’s a saying I heard many years ago which goes “Character is what you have when the lights go out.”

If the lights go out when there’s a conservative nearby, keep one hand on your wallet until the lights come back on.

Closing down the Keystone pipeline wasn’t about economics, it was about values, about what kind of people we are.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

I am not a “Conservative”, but a small-‘l’ libertarian. (The only thing that keeps me from being a Big-‘L’ Libertarian is that the Political party is an embarrassment. C’mon, guys. Save the boot-hat, Ganja, and the strippers for the after-party when you win!)

As for Black Swans, that term is typically reserved for rare disasters. I say when life gives you a Black Swan, make pillows and paté.

Don’t sweat the oil. Caribou and other animals actually gather around the pipelines for warmth. We have enzyme technology for dealing with spills, and the indigenois tribes can and should have a cut of the petroleum take too.

And character plus street-smarts is keeping the lights on so you don’t have to trust and beg the Russians, Saudis, and Iran.

[—Participant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Don’t sweat the oil. Caribou and other animals actually gather around the pipelines for warmth. We have enzyme technology for dealing with spills, and the indigenois tribes can and should have a cut of the petroleum take too.

I’d love to be able to believe this is satire, though it is true that various Indigenous communities stand to profit if Keystone XL ever goes through—and ultimately it’s the right of those communities to decide (or at least should be, but it seems they have more rights to say ‘yes’ to energy projects than ‘no’). But there’s a far more complicated story there as well.

Pretty sure the caribou will manage just fine without the pipeline for warmth.

[UnseenParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Unseen, I am not a “Conservative”, but a small-‘l’ libertarian. (The only thing that keeps me from being a Big-‘L’ Libertarian is that the Political party is an embarrassment. C’mon, guys. Save the boot-hat, Ganja, and the strippers for the after-party when you win!) As for Black Swans, that term is typically reserved for rare disasters. I say when life gives you a Black Swan, make pillows and paté. Don’t sweat the oil. Caribou and other animals actually gather around the pipelines for warmth. We have enzyme technology for dealing with spills, and the indigenois tribes can and should have a cut of the petroleum take too. And character plus street-smarts is keeping the lights on so you don’t have to trust and beg the Russians, Saudis, and Iran.

The term “conservative” embraces a variety of views. For example, most of our elected conservatives on the Federal level are with the Democrats who want to sanction the shit out of Putin’s plaything (Russia). At the same time, Donald Trump (supposedly a kind of conservative) is cheerleading for Putin, proclaiming that that’s what we need down on the border with Mexico.

Anyway, my point is that so-called “libertarians” tend to behave like a faction somewhere in the conservative spectrum, siding more often with conservative Republicans than liberal or radical Dems.

I’m not sure how long it takes enzymes to fix a large spill, but—correct me if I’m wrong—it won’t be instantaneously.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by  Unseen.

[UnseenParticipant]

If you want to lose sleep at night, think about these things: 1) everyone knows that Putin would like nothing more than to absorb all the lost satellite states back into Russia to recreate the geographical footprint of the USSR, only as an oligarchy and not a socialist state.

What if Putin were to start talking about how Russia got hustled out of giving up Alaska to the United States and wants it back?

How do you stop a guy who’s willing to threaten (which he did today, only obliquely, by

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

Closing down the Keystone pipeline wasn’t about economics, it was about values, about what kind of people we are.

Of course closing keystone XL wasn’t about economics, since Biden and his advisors don’t know dick about economics. He closes the pipeline and stops the fracking, then claims he’s doing all he can to keep gas prices down. A simple grasp of the Law of Supply and Demand shows how contradictory and stupid that is. Less oil supply with constant and increasing demand equals higher prices.

And the “values” this closing was about are national nihilism and suicide! Somebody wheel this mentally decrepit man out of the Oval Office!

[—Participant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

And the “values” this closing was about are national nihilism and suicide! Somebody wheel this mentally decrepit man out of the Oval Office!

Why can’t you present honest arguments?

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Autumn,

What else is it if not national nihilism and suicide for a President to use Executive power to cripple the ability of Citizens in his nation to provide for their own energy production?

What else is it but mentally decrepit when that same President has to beg Saudi Arabia and Iran–two of the most reprehensible Theocratic tyrannies on the Planet–to keep the oil flowing after he’s stopped oil from flowing in his own nation?

And what else is it but mentally decrepit to be self-disabled to respond to a global aggressor like Vladamir Putin, who would turn tail and run if the U.S.could supply Ukraine and the rest of Europe with Light Sweet Crude and horizontal drilling technology?

That is more than an honest argument. That is an honest statement of fact.

[Author]

Posts