Is beauty real?
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PopeBeanie.
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October 22, 2019 at 4:10 pm #29028
_Robert_ParticipantTry not to confuse biological sexual response based on probability of healthy offspring with the concept of aesthetic beauty. An extra colorful sunset doesn’t cause an erection.
October 22, 2019 at 4:17 pm #29029
UnseenParticipantTry not to confuse biological sexual response based on probability of healthy offspring with the concept of aesthetic beauty. An extra colorful sunset doesn’t cause an erection.
I don’t think I’ve ever calculated the probability of healthy offspring in any situation that gave me a boner.
October 22, 2019 at 4:45 pm #29030
_Robert_ParticipantYou did, but you didn’t know it. Hip to waist ratio, apparent breasts, etc. for those attracted to women and strong shoulders, tall, etc. for those attracted to men. The science of sexual attraction is pretty far along. You can ask my buddy who is only 5′ 4″ tall all about it.
October 22, 2019 at 6:43 pm #29031
Jody LeeParticipantI don’t think I’ve ever calculated the probability of healthy offspring in any situation that gave me a boner.
😂😂
October 22, 2019 at 7:28 pm #29032
jakelafortParticipantRobert, there is no confusion. You have simply identified the biological basis for universality in humans perceiving beauty in humans. I have made the conjecture that beauty in nature and man-made is based on our innate sense of patterns and mathematical arrangements which are reflected in designs and colors.
October 22, 2019 at 7:37 pm #29033
jakelafortParticipantUnseen, i simply made the assertion that other animals perceive beauty. A general comment or refrain..be wary of conceiving of homo sapiens as special creation. It is incongruous to on one hand see us as having evolved and having common ancestors with all other species and on the other to make the assumption that we are unique in a myriad of ways and have characteristics that are unique.
As for your comments about art i do not know what you are getting at. I never like Venus on the half shell or Mona.
October 22, 2019 at 8:38 pm #29035
Reg the Fronkey FarmerModeratorI consider the Medusa by Caravaggio to be a beautiful work of art. I suspect most people would disagree with me. Of course it is still my subjective opinion and I don’t care if everyone were to disagree with me. I am even trying to work some of it into an idea for my next tattoo.

More info here.
October 22, 2019 at 8:57 pm #29036
_Robert_ParticipantI have made the conjecture that beauty in nature and man-made is based on our innate sense of patterns and mathematical arrangements which are reflected in designs and colors.
I agree with that. We find the very statistically improbable either beautiful or ugly. People still believe the universe revolves around them. You just need to imagine no human beings ever existed.
October 23, 2019 at 1:27 am #29037
UnseenParticipantI don’t think I’ve ever calculated the probability of healthy offspring in any situation that gave me a boner.
In fact, if I was calculating anything, I was calculating how to avoid having offspring.
October 23, 2019 at 2:10 am #29038
UnseenParticipantYou did, but you didn’t know it. Hip to waist ratio, apparent breasts, etc. for those attracted to women and strong shoulders, tall, etc. for those attracted to men. The science of sexual attraction is pretty far along. You can ask my buddy who is only 5′ 4″ tall all about it.
You’re still talking about tendencies, averages, statistics. Lots of people fall outside the averages so we’re a far distance from establishing beauty as any sort of cosmic fact applying everywhere under all circumstances.
Here is some evidence I ran across about 30 years ago. I think it was in Psychology Magazine (back before it got turned into a women’a publication). I’m forced to kind of paraphrase it because it somehow has not turned up on the Internet where Google might find it, unless I’m just using the wrong search terms.
It goes like this: A researcher wanted to prove that aesthetic attitudes are culture-based (a psychologist uses the term “attitudes” instead of “judgments,” which is more a philosophical term).
The structure of the experiment was clever and hard to argue with though one can quibble with its small scale.
He contacted leading artists until he had a few willing to participate. They were all acclaimed artists in their field.
He had each one offer what he felt was a great example of work in their field and another one that was more pedestrian. He had artists from a variety of fields, like Western painting, Japanese swordsmithing, African maskmaking, and several other fields. Then he had each artist look at the other artists work and decide which one of each pair was the better example.
He was floored. He actually proved the opposite of his theory. The artists consistently agreed with the artist submitting the examples.
Based on the result, one has to consider that there is a real objective basis for aesthetic judgments, just as the ancient Greeks maintained.
October 23, 2019 at 2:28 am #29039
gerardwoodParticipantI believe that we are all programmed chaotically by our language and our society. Our society defines what is beautiful and we all respond in a bell curve. What one considers beautiful is entirely dependent on what one has been exposed to.
October 23, 2019 at 3:52 am #29040
UnseenParticipantUnseen, i simply made the assertion that other animals perceive beauty. A general comment or refrain..be wary of conceiving of homo sapiens as special creation. It is incongruous to on one hand see us as having evolved and having common ancestors with all other species and on the other to make the assumption that we are unique in a myriad of ways and have characteristics that are unique. As for your comments about art i do not know what you are getting at. I never like Venus on the half shell or Mona.
Animals perceive beauty? So they are critics? Knowing which painting is more beautiful than another? Nonsense.
Beauty isn’t about “liking.” I may see a painting as beautiful but then admit that it’s still not my cuppa tea.
October 23, 2019 at 3:57 am #29041
UnseenParticipantI believe that we are all programmed chaotically by our language and our society. Our society defines what is beautiful and we all respond in a bell curve. What one considers beautiful is entirely dependent on what one has been exposed to.
Well, then what about the experiment I described. The result would seem to imply anything but chaos. It seems to imply something universal, built-in, ‘”real” behind aesthetic judgments.
October 23, 2019 at 4:03 am #29042
UnseenParticipantOf course, the whole notion that art must be beautiful is not a very sophisticated notion. The painting Guernica by Picasso is not pretty in any way. The same might be said about most of his work. Many would name Rembrandt and Vermeer as perhaps the two greatest painters of the Renaissance. Rembrandt’s style was somewhat impressionistic while Vermeer’s was virtually photographic realism. Neither painter painted many pretty pictures. Van Gogh painted some gorgeous paintings, but few were that beautiful.
Many would argue that great paintings seem to have more to do with truth than beauty. Otherwise Maxfield Parrish would be a great painter and not just a talented illustrator.
October 23, 2019 at 4:40 am #29043
gerardwoodParticipantI think we have a different understanding of chaos. Your last post indicates chaos as what you considered to be beautiful is not the same for everyone.
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